The Truth About DragonLasers

Well... to be honest... I don't believe anything in this thread... this is all opinion. I am not trying to be mean or to disregard anyone's opinion. The fact is that there is nothing solid to disprove the company or any other company until we have some solid data. The SenTorches for example tested great on the first few units, and now we are struggling with getting a full order of in-spec units. This stuff always happens. The manufacturing procedure is the same for all the units. If it is physically ideal and put out 150mW or if the dye is a bit out of spec and it puts out 75mW (that is 50%!!) is all a game of numbers and probability and luck. The manufacturer themselves hate to have units under-spec. If you have EVER worked with material deposition you would know the truth about this whole field! This is a VERY tricky business. It is not a matter of design or implementation... it really is just a matter of luck.

Bottom line is... if someone buys 50 units from DL or NL or WL and 5 or more test under-spec... I would be PISSED! I expect ZERO to be under-spec, but then again I'm a very stringent critic.

--DDL

I think the question that needs to be answered is WHY are poeple getting under-spec. units ??? All these Laser Companies swear blind( pardon the pun) that they test every single Laser before they are shipped to the Customer.

If this is indeed true then can someone please explain to me, and everyone else for that matter, why poeple STILL get under-spec Lasers !!!!!!

Seriously how can this happen ????

Businesses doesn't really go by the rules people wish that they would. The seller may be more interested in instantaneous profit rather than company image. The truth is selling better units would improve the overall company image and, on the long run, improve the total profits. WL is abusing that power now... and as such their reputation is draining rather quickly, if any is left.

Such is the demise of a company based on greed and dishonesty... (BFG comes to mind! :)

--DDL

Timelord said:

Well I'm a VIP member at dragon lasers so you can order through me if you want too and I'll get you a discount. Not to mention my name carries some weight with the dragon lasers boys  

Click to expand...

This comment is reckless, pointless, irrelevant, and irresponsible, whether or not its intentions were helpful or otherwise. It's good to know the true "fanboy" (recall using that insult on so many others Timelord?) is open about his true colors (wicked orange perhaps?). Besides that, I have nothing against you Lee.



I do have things to say about the other posts here too, and I agree with all of them to an extent, but I don't have the time at the moment, sorry! If I'm still a member of these forums after my last comment, I will post my response at a later time.

pseudonomen137 said:

[quote author=Timelord link=1184973705/15#15 date=1185104519]Well I'm a VIP member at dragon lasers so you can order through me if you want too and I'll get you a discount. Not to mention my name carries some weight with the dragon lasers boys

Click to expand...

This comment is reckless, pointless, irrelevant, and irresponsible, whether or not its intentions were helpful or otherwise. It's good to know the true "fanboy" (recall using that insult on so many others Timelord?) is open about his true colors (wicked orange perhaps?). Besides that, I have nothing against you Lee.



I do have things to say about the other posts here too, and I agree with all of them to an extent, but I don't have the time at the moment, sorry! If I'm still a member of these forums after my last comment, I will post my response at a later time.[/quote]
I'm no F***ING fan boy : I was just offering discount to help people if they wanted it. Wind your neck in Carter!!!

Daedal said:

Bottom line is... if someone buys 50 units from DL or NL or WL and 5 or more test under-spec... I would be PISSED! I expect ZERO to be under-spec, but then again I'm a very stringent critic.

--DDL

Click to expand...

Hi Daedal,
I completely agree and I've been in that position and even worse when I 1st started Optotronics, not only was I pissed, I had a terrible sick feeling in my stomach and had a hard time sleeping until I heard back from the manufacturer.

I let them know that each one not meeting spec would be returned to them at their cost.
It took a good year to get our incoming quality to a point I'm pretty satisfied with. As the business and order size grew, they realized I wouldn't keep or sell anything I didn't spend the time to test.

I still get some out of spec lasers in my shipments, but the percentage is way down; however I don't get mad or let it bother me anymore.... I just let them know that they are being sent back on their account and know they will get replacements sent for them with my next order.

Morepower said:

I think the question that needs to be answered is WHY are poeple getting under-spec. units ??? All these Laser Companies swear blind( pardon the pun) that they test every single Laser before they are shipped to the Customer.

If this is indeed true then can someone please explain to me, and everyone else for that matter, why poeple STILL get under-spec Lasers !!!!!!

Seriously how can this happen ????

Click to expand...

It's happening because some unnamed companies are NOT testing their products and if they are, it's not with a meter or any kind of burn-in. I've found if they are well tested, the failure or return rate is very low for the entire warranty period. In fact I've never had one of the lasers I've shipped to a customer ever arrive DOA (knock on wood), but about a year and half ago I did have a couple go belly up within a week or two of customer delivery.

It just makes good business sense to test and burn-in your product.
The sooner a failure or out of spec product can be detected and taken care, the less expensive it's going to be for me. If one goes to a customer and fails, it cost me much more..in not only shipping costs, but time online or on the phone arranging it's return, plus it's not good for your reputation.

btw, None of what I commented above is directed at DragonLasers, I don't have any 1st hand experience with them or their lasers, so I can't comment on their quality or customer service.

Hi Jack, when you say "burn-in" what exactly does that entale ?? And is it more for the crystals or the diode, my guess is for the latter. Also if a Laser has a duty cycle of 60 sec on and 10 sec off would this affect the "burn-in" procedure ?? I'm just curious to know is all.

Morepower said:

Hi Jack, when you say "burn-in" what exactly does that entale ?? And is it more for the crystals or the diode, my guess is for the latter. Also if a Laser has a duty cycle of 60 sec on and 10 sec off would this affect the "burn-in" procedure ?? I'm just curious to know is all.

Click to expand...

Hi Morepower,
I created a test fixture to run a number of lasers at the same time. There's a shelf in fancy fixture(plywood box basically) Each laser is connected to one of three power supplies controlled through their GPIB interface via a MatLab script. On the lower shelf I have an incandescent light bulb that intermittently gets turned on/off via a serial port and MatLab. The light bulb is for adding some heat to accelerate any component failure (The heating section is running open loop (no feedback for over heat) I picked a light bulb duty cycle by trial and error to give an internal box temperature of ~85 F.
I use a duty cycle of 4 minutes on and 2 minutes off.
This test runs for 6 hours. I then go back and test power output and visually spot check the divergence and beam shape for anything out of the ordinary. Any process failures are then removed.

After all have been tested in this manner, the remaining go through the process again, but for a 24 hour burn-in period.

I know this is not the full speced duty cycle for these, but they are tested at an elevated temperature and duty cycle is a function of the ambient temperature.

I'm not sure where the 60 sec on/ 10 sec off duty cycle you mentioned is from or if it's just for instance. I'm not an expert by any means at component failure statistics and how duty cycle or other variables affect the infant mortality failure rate, but I think the longer the duty cycle the better, but also you want as many of on/off cycles as possible as that is one of the things that really stresses the components.

I don't think the burn-in does much for the crystal and lens set, it's mainly for the diode, driver and other associated electrical circuits.

They also go through a visual inspection.

The only parts that don't get a good work out is the push button power switch, key switch if the model has one or adjustable tail cap. This is an area I still need to work on, but the failure of these is rare (so far).

That's my burn-in for the most part, I do a few other tests and checks, but they are not part of the "burn-in" and I don't want to reveal all my methods.

shouldnt starphaser be blacklisted as well then
never out of stock either

I think its really black & white thinking when blacklisting companies that are not regulary out of stock.

Out of stock --> Good
Laser available --> Bad
:-/


I think there is an area in between as wel. Good lasers that are not always out of stock.
and if not, and the output is way lower then the average they are sold for, it will be mentioned on many forums anyway. its just a matter of time when people start to notice it.

Time will be the judge of scammy sales in Laser-world

I want to see a video of a green laser pointer outputting a sustained >100mw for 30 seconds using AAA batteries.

Placebo said:

I want to see a video of a green laser pointer outputting a sustained  >100mw for 30 seconds using AAA batteries.  

Click to expand...

If you really want it, send me your e-mail address and I'll mail you a power graph or two (I normally use a regulated PSU, but I'll splurge on a pair of alkalines for you ).

Placebo said:

I want to see a video of a green laser pointer outputting a sustained >100mw for 30 seconds using AAA batteries.

Click to expand...

I was gonna do it now, but I don't have any AAA charged My AAA lithiums are low, tried them and I barely was hitting 85 mw. I'll get osme new ones and post tomorrow. I can't sleep tonight, so might be late afternoon.

pseudonomen137 said:

(I normally use a regulated PSU, but I'll splurge on a pair of alkalines for you ).

Click to expand...

Thanks anyways, but I need a video, and it's gotta be batteries.

You see, I don't believe that any of these devices will put out >100mw sustained over 30 seconds with AAA's. I need video proof

I'll probably get it too, but until I do, I say B F S!

Hell, show me sustained 90mw if you ain't got new liths! 85mw! Fine!

Bring it!

30 seconds! Real seconds!!!!

Hi Pseudo, what's up? I'm fine thanks!

Dangit Placebo, you sure know how to waste my Saturday morning.

As someone who has sold lasers as >100mW average before, I figure you're calling me a liar. I'm guessing we're not going to see WL or DL take your challenge, so I'll have to step up to the plate.

Here ya go, not sure how long I left it on for but its more than 30 secs on regular energizer alkaline batts (no liths or recharges, just fresh alks):
http://www.pseudonomen.com/lasers/placebotest.mpg (its a 35Mb download... deal with it  )


PS: Please excuse the pile of crap on my desk!...erm... the pile of crap that IS my desk.