First of all i wanna make clear this Thread is not ment to offend some people.
After a few cases with chinese companies and their unbelievable stories to make me believe there is really a tooth fairy i am seriously curious if lying has another rating in their culture.
For example. If a chinese think it would help him to make you believe ravens are pink. After you showed him at Wikipedia, after you went to a Zoo to explain him his wrong. The chinese is looking straight in your eyes and say: Ravens are pink. Any explanations ?

Again, i am not a racist. I like asian people.

I know salesmen like that.... They are not Chinese...
but they are always trying to make a sale by telling
you what you want to hear...

Jerry

^ i know some politicians like that ..... er, ok, make it "all" politicians

You are NOT a "person" to them. You are an order. Even if they would NEVER lie to a person. It is perfectly OK to lie to an order.

Besides, you are rich and can afford the loss, right?

Peace,
dave

Haha, you mean because those Moneytrees we have here at Western? Just imagine we had Bonsais. Where would the money com from?

Go here

Global Rich List

Plug in your (or your family's) annual income

THAT is how they see you.

Peace,
dave

From another point of view we actually are rich. While others fight to feed their familys, we are playing with Light.

I'll just say right now, before someone goes off calling me racist or ignorant or whatever, that i'm chinese and I go back every couple of years to visit relatives.


They don't get as good of a deal there as we do. When I go back, we go out to eat and screw around at the tourist attractions and everything, but when I'm not there, they don't waste a scrap of food, because it's a developing country. My aunt is a doctor and she lives on about 3 bucks a day for food. No AC, 1 lightbulb, no TV. It's work, eat, sleep.

So then when you think about that, they're going to do whatever it takes to make that extra 30 USD so than can buy something nice for their kids, or their families.


Hope that didn't come out too preachy. And it's not just the chinese. They make a lot of lasers, but those people are in every business.

There are zillions of human beings living in China, so a few individual cases cannot represent the national character. While even millions of Chinese are still starving, being poor cannot still justify the lying habit. Just like US, China is also another multi-cultural melting pot. People love and kill each other. It happens always.

Most of us in the "Western world" are very rich compared to the average Chinese worker


I, at least, was not even hinting that it might be a Chinese attribute. It is a "sales person's" attribute. The "reduce the person to an 'object'" viewpoint is prevalent in the world of sales -- ALL over the world

Peace,
dave

haha..
Hi Dave, you got your point made clear enough. You are not misunderstood anyway.
We all agree that it's mere a flaw in human nature or profession feature, but has nothing to do with any particular nation or race.

Good luck!

I hadn't seen that before; certainly makes you think. Sometimes people need to be reminded of just how lucky they are, that link just did it for me.

"rich" ..... "rich" ..... what means "rich" ? .....

Oh, wait, you are referring to those peoples full of that strange thing that anyone want, right ? ..... wait, what was the name ..... oh, got it, it was "money", right ? .....

(uhm, one of these days i have to find someone that can explain me where to find some of this "money" thing, so i can finally try to experiment in person what means "being rich", instead to have to just try to imagine it from third-hand descriptions ..... )

For the record, China is a big place with a lot of different tribes and cultures and peoples. So lets talk about the culture specific to lasers, call it the Post Communist Manufacturing Culture.

When I worked at a university, I worked with graduate students. I flat out asked a group of Chinese students about the low cost electronics situation, and explained the laser situation. They were not shocked that I asked this, and gladly explained a few things. They were not a bit apologetic, they looked at the discussion as a means to understand trade with western nations, as nearly all of them will go do product research for big corporations.


This is my understanding, but keep in mind the young folks I worked with were picked from a young age for a academic track, odds are their parents were managers who tutored their children, not line workers. None of them will see a assembly line in their life, unless they end up owning it!

The one, when he went back with a doctorate, was offered a professorship, about 250,000 US dollars in startup money, a job for life as a academic, and the top floor in a apartment building as a incentive. He received his own apartment, and rents the rest. He teaches and does research for the day job and runs a company in the evenings.

Here is what they said, as I understand it:

1. People are often paid by the task or piece, so your in a hurry. If you don't hurry, there is another person from a rural farm who is glad to take your place. Working fast does not mean you work accurately. Meeting the production quota is more important then quality. If it flunks final test, rework it with another low cost worker, rather then reject it.


2. Quality control is on the customer. When haggling, you, the customer, are expected to inspect the goods at purchase, before delivery. You, the foreign pointer owner, are not there to haggle and inspect the product. So its easy to ship you junk. You do not have much recourse. If you stop buying their product, some one else will, because every one is looking for deal.

3. Supervisors and quality control people are expensive. They have to have education, thus good ones expect to be paid more. Good ones can easily find work at another company in a developing economy. Good ones can often go start a competing company. So its cheaper to have a 30:1 employee to supervisor ratio and toss or rework the bad product.


This is changing as western companies shift manufacturing to China, and expect to get their monies worth. Its also changing as they go automated on their lines, but right now humans are far cheaper then robotics for them.

You can bet they have far less disposable income. Many workers live 4 or more to a room in a company dorm, very much like a military barracks.

One thing just came to mind. A common sick joke when I was a kid, was the quality difference between a imported Japanese car and a American made car. The Japanese car would be quiet. In the American car, you were likely to find at least one rattle. That rattle would be a Coke bottle welded inside in your fender. So its NOT just a China problem.

Steve

Have you ever heard the expression "you get what you pay for?"

-Trevor

I am VERY VERY rich. I have a family that loves me and a handful of close life-time friends.

The Co. that I work for went into China last year and they sent 4 guys from China to Utah so we could train them on equipment repair and installaion. They new very little english, we had an interpreter so that was not a problem. They are in your face when they ask a question or talk to you, not in a bad way but 6 inches away. They enjoyed being here for 2 weeks and seemed to be very nice once you got used to them and their customs. (I think we corrupted them they will never be the same) I know they had some nasty hangovers while they were here.

I know a couple in Portland, OR that came from China many years ago and have a roach coach, I loved them, they were a kick to be around, non of the Chinese that I know represent the likes of the companies like WL. So I can't say they are deceiving like some of the foreign companies.

Many Chinese people are friendly and kind. Only few of them are bad. just like any other countries, there are good people and bad people. If you got chance to get there, I believe you will be impressed.

Do I have to type my gross income or the net ?

For to make understand Glorious Chinese Culture, impart to western demagogue from harmful ideals made. Left handed bacon wrap to the dryer for the intuition from the beginning of traditional societies. Formality observation from point of labor to familial oils. Likeness you are knowing now!

I think it's more of a sales thing than a cultural thing. I will say though that in my opinion it is more pervasive in sales from china to the US because the chinese realize that (especially with something like lasers) if the quality is not up to standards that the US buyer has no real recourse. It also really depends on what industry it is for example the factories in china that produce most apple computers would never screw apple over and produce blatantly under-spec products and try to pass them off to apple as up to spec because the contracts are worth billions of dollars and the factory owners know that apple would find someone else to do a better job. Basically apple has power in this situation where as with the laser situation we're all in we don't really have any power simply because all the scam/garbage companies need is for one person to make one purchase at a time because even after you have figured out there product is garbage there will always be someone else who doesn't know. Now if EVERY SINGLE PERSON read reviews on laser companies BEFORE they purchased a laser the crap companies would either have to go out of business or step up there game, basically the crap companies rely heavily on the uninformed first time purchaser.

EDIT: There are a whole lot of other variables but that IMO is the skinny of it.