- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,032
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Intro
Well, in past threads I've tried to explain why I'm certain Dragon Lasers is a scam through logic and past experience with their model of lasers (http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1184973705). However, it always seems that's not good enough, and there is always someone who wants to defend DL and encourage buying from them. Many a time I get the excuse "have you ever bought from DL?" ("no, I'm not that stupid. Why would I buy from a company I'm calling out for a scam?!"). Even though I've tested many tens of DLs lasers from the OEM, since I cannot claim direct transactions with DL people don't want to seem to listen when I try to protect them. So I've taken it on as my personal vendetta, in a sense, to discredit DL. Well, I got fed up with it all and just placed an order with them to demonstrate what I've been saying.The Setup
So, the first step was to be the average customer. I was afraid that on the rare chance they recognized my name, I would get a non-representative sample. So I had a friend order me 2 Viper 125mW lasers. Now, in a conversation with live chat right before placing the order, I made sure to re-affirm that a Viper 125mW means that the laser will output >=125mW over a 60 second average. Here's a clip from the conversation (I'm using a different name just in case):Me:
if I buy a 125mW laser
Me:
does that mean it will stay above 125mW for the entire 60 seconds?
Me:
or is it the "peak"?
Support:
it means the average power over that 60 seconds will be at least 125mW
For the testing, I wanted to give DL the benefit of the doubt and be as fair as possible, so I tested them as I test my own CNI lasers: Power from a 3.1V regulated power supply so battery drain is not an issue, and I use a program I made to pinpoint the absolute greatest 60 second average over its runtime (IE, the first 60 seconds / 600 data points are rarely the highest average, so my program goes and determines the 'best' minute).
After that, it was up to the lasers. Honestly, I was expecting them to perform in the 105-120mW range, and perhaps even one would be in spec (especially with my lenient testing method), but I'd still get to prove my point. However, the results were even more disappointing than I had expected. Just to see, I also configured a program to test the lasers via the same methods Nova does (they don't use a raw 60 second average, but you can read up more on their method at novalasers.com) to see how they would measure up there.
Data
DL Viper 125mW #1:Raw 60 second Average - 103.8 mW
Nova's nominal rating - 105.7 mW
Peak Output - 108.9
DL Viper 125mW #2:
Raw 60 second Average - 104.0 mW
Nova's nominal rating - 108.0 mW
Peak Output - 109.8 mW
Me Complaining
As you can see, neither laser is close to being in spec. I paid $330 apiece for two Viper 125mW lasers, and got two $200 Viper 95mW lasers - a net scam of $260 for DL. You can also see that Novalaser's testing method does exaggerate the ratings by a few mW, so these may have actually counted as X-105s, but still not the 125mWs I paid for!So there you go. I have now explained, through logic, why DL 125mWs must be a scam, I have shared my past experience with these lasers to back that up, and I have now objectively tested 2 DL 125mWs direct from Dragon Lasers to confirm this. I'm afraid there may still be someone here who will defend/promote these scammers, but I don't know what else I can do short of getting the head of DL to sign a paper admitting he's a scammer (and even then no one would believe me). I feel I've done more than enough... MUCH more than enough to prove that DL is knowingly fraudulent, and I simply will not put up with any more BS defending them. If you have a criticism of my test methods, that I can understand and take into consideration. Otherwise, I barely see how anyone even has the right to defend these scammers anymore.
Everything Else
- NOTE: I am not saying all DL 125mWs are underspec. I'm just saying many are, and DL knows it - AKA fraud/scamming.- One of the lasers they sent was actually far worse than the above data shows. After ~90 seconds of runtime it started changing modes and dropped down to NO MORE THAN 26mW (minimum was ~14). Now that is pathetic. Any company that really tests their lasers, and cares about their customers should have caught that.
- I shipped off both of these underspec lasers back to DL for a refund today. So far the only thing I can give them credit for is their customer service, which was pretty decent about the RMA. However, when I asked to be reimbursed for the shipping on this scam, I was basically told that since they test each laser before shipping (yeah right), 'screw you'. I'm hoping they will stay true to their policies and refund my money, otherwise that's a good $660 down the drain.
- I'd like to give a special thanks to Craig/Morepower and Greg/SenKat, who both came forward to cover the $45 in shipping costs this testing incurred. Since both of you generously sent the full amount, I'm refunding half to both of you via Paypal. The data in this post, as well as the safety of LPF readers from scams both owe you two great credit!
EDIT: Thanks also to Jack/bootleg2go of www.optotronics.com !
