DragonLasers & the Defamation of DragonLasers

I just signed on to see an interesting post by DL about me. The post ignores all the evidence against DL - it doesn't clear up a single point. It does, however, take a nice low-blow at me personally, so here's what I have to say:


Well first off, I get the impression from your post, Frank, that you're thinking about not issuing my refund. Do you really want to add that to your reputation?

So, I'm sorry you feel I am that twisted and dishonest. You've had your chance at posting your side now, so its my turn. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what these forums want to believe.


Me as a business

- "Pseudonomen137 used this lack of competition to sell lasers he’d purchased directly from CNI at much lower prices than wickedlasers."
You're right. I was intrigued by CNIs products so I placed a >$3k order to sample their units, and I ordered a few extra greenies at the time. I sold these WHOLE THREE lasers at a few dollars of profit to LC members.

To date, the only REAL profit I've made from CNI products is over the IR lasers. I've sold ~15 greenies in all, at a net profit of probably ~$10 a unit. That's $150 profit for many hours a week over a period of over a year. If you want to call that a business, then yeah, I am your competitor DL.

So, for the sake of staying on topic, lets just say I am a huge, massively profitable business who wants to run you broke. Then what?


The Testing

- "Keep in mind that Pseudonomen137 staked his reputation on the test failing, he needed the testes to fail, so there is no way that the tests could have been carried out with complete impartiality. "
No, you keep in mind that I actually expected at least one of these lasers to be in-spec, and I would have posted the results either way around. The fact that you sell crap really helped out my point though.

As I said before, I really did do everything I could to give you the benefit of the doubt. Instead of batteries, I hooked up the laser to a 3.1V regulated supply. In case and light was hitting the aperture cap, I tested it without the cap on. The room was room temperature and no external heat sources (such as being handheld) were introduced.

I also made sure to choose the BEST 60 second average from the test. If there had been room for my bias to play in, it probably would have because I hate scammers, but I took every step I could to rule out bias and give DL the benefit of the doubt. Since you seem to think my tests were skewed though, I'll post the FULL test data. Note that neither graph even peaks over 110mW, and the huge drop in the first graph is NOT an error:

Dragon Lasers Viper 125mW #1:


Dragon Lasers Viper 125mW #2:



Paypal Dispute

As DL said, after I tested both lasers to be crap, I filed a paypal dispute. I listed the terms that I wanted a full refund, and if DL wants the products back, they will have to pay the shipping. What would you do in that situation? I know I sure wouldn't want to pay shipping for products that are obviously out of spec. Paypal, however, doesn't care if you get scammed. Perhaps a chargeback will be the only way to mediate this is DL doesn't come through? I will say this for DL though, other than that, they did stick to their policies as Frank said. That's about the only policy I can say.

Other

C'mon DL. Now you're blaming it on shipping or something? Everything fits with the info I've said about CNI before. The DL 95mWs I've tested seem to meet spec, which makes sense, and the 125mWs don't... also a coindicence(?) that is fully explained by what CNI actually sells. What's gunna happen in transit to magically make those two 125mWs perform like this?

Oh, and BTW. It seems like now I'm being attacked for buying some extra greens on my orders, and selling them at discount. Well, the last time I did it, I got screwed over financially and lost some $, this time I'm getting personal attacks. Well, I'm fresh out of CNI green pens, and I'm renewing my broken vow to never buy them again. I help you out by selling discount lasers, I help you out by exposing rip-offs, and the whole time I'm just facing constant criticism. I expect some... there's always some jerk who will complain like those people and SenKat's glowtorches, but this is getting insane. I have a bunch of PMs to respond to here, but instead I'm sitting around responding to this BS. My free time is diminishing and my anger is rising.


So its your turn now Frank. Lets dig our mutual hole a little deeper here because I'd rather take us both down than leave you standing.


PS: I'm a big fan on SenKat's offer to test the lasers too. My meter is well within its +/-3% calibration deadline from the industry leader in the field, so I'm pretty dang confident in my results. You can tell me you tested in >125 when you get it back, but I see no reason to believe you. If SenKat tests it >125, then I'll have to figure out what went wrong on my end.

Let's get ready to rumbllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllle!
In the left corner, we have the "knock out" all knowing laser king, Pseudonomen137!
In the right corner, we have the company that has their own incredible Hulk, Dragonlasers!

I'm sorry, I know this is a serious issue. It is sad that this hobby of ours has some companies that try to cheat the buyers, and the only way to make sure it to buy an expensive meter. Hopefully this will be sorted out and have a happy ending.

(I take a neutral stand, take no offense to this post )

No problem Rob. I'm glad someone can take a positive attitude to all this. I wish I could be the "other guy" making jokes about it too, but DL has forced my hand here.

I have found that Pseduo is excellent. I know he's trying to save all of us! True, something may have happened during shipping, something may have not happened during shipping. Those plots look exactly like the ones I got when I got my CNI from Pseduo. (Well not EXACTLY, but with my stats, same format.) After my amazing experience with Pseudo I wouldn't doubt him at all. I have no personal experience with DL and only minimal experience of NL through a close friend. I hope this all gets sorted out and we can get to the bottom of this. There is of course a chance that the lasers were under specifications, even that one or both meters were calibrated slightly wrong. But I will try and not take any one side, but I will stand up for Pseudo if the time comes.

relax pseudo nobody believes DL ;D

Very well spoken, pseudo. I must say, you have been very, very honest and knowledgable about lasers in the past, and I for one can't believe you would try to bash anyone without evidence against them. Now you have strong evidence that suggests Dragon Lasers does scam people, and I'm betting that SenKat will be able to solidify your findings further.

It's very upsetting to see you getting bashed over this. You are trying to save people from making a huge mistake and overpaying for a 100mW laser, for crying out loud! This whole ordeal is getting pretty rediculous...

Good luck with getting your money back from Dragon Lasers.

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Great job Pseudo!

I sure would love to be Optotronics, Nova or laserglow right about now... ;D ;D

--DDL

Frank ---

Welcome th LPF  ;D

As many here know, I have a DL95 which I carry in my pocket every day like a pen in my pocket.  I use it for show off fun with balloons for the "unenlightened"  or to light up the basement of a house I'm inspecting.  This "pen pointer"  always works for me.  I also do welding and fireworks.  This little "pen" never fails.  I do have to clean the lens about once a month due to sweat, dirt, dust and smoke !!!

This 95 outputs a peak of 125 mW dropping to around 105 mW after 10 seconds. I don't need it for more than that and e2 cells are expensive.

As some of you saw, Pseudo and I had a frendly shoot out about a week ago over Dragon Lasers.  He has very good input and scientific backing for his concerns.  I have to agree with his readings. (I think he has better meters than me !!)  However -- I have different needs and expectations and I never expected my DL pocket pointer -- powered by aaa cells -- to maintain a continuous output of 95 mW for the heat related spec. duty cycle.

I figure that if I need 100 mW +++ CW,  I won't get something powered by aaa cells !!!    Psuedo's current readings on his 125's are truly poor and need to be verified.  This is a strange marketplace but my DL95 survives hell in my pocket.

Mike

why hasnt ths been stickied with all the other ones?

quote author=Hemlock Mike link=1189545082/0#7 date=1189570985]
I figure that if I need 100 mW +++ CW, I won't get something powered by aaa cells !!! Psuedo's current readings on his 125's are truly poor and need to be verified. This is a strange marketplace but my DL95 survives hell in my pocket.
Mike[/quote]
Mike, you are very Correct! If one desired a stable 10mw, 50mW, or 100mW, they would not buy something powered by 2 AAA $2.00 batteries. Instead, they would buy a module with an aluminum heatsink, TEC cooling, maybe liquid cooling, and a regulated power supply. But guess what? Even these can have problems. See our very good friend Boomdog.

I also agree with you about it being a strange market place. I've had a CNI that was awful switched beam modes constantly and was just pathetic. See this pic. Nevermind, apparently I can't post links. (yeah, thats 3 beams) I've also had a CNI that is exactly how you described yours. It was rock solid and was amazing.

But I disagree with you on the readings of Carter. Why? You have no evidence for your claims. Prove to me why HIS readings are "truly poor and need to be verified." Do you have a power meter? Do you have more experience/insight than he does? There is no way you can make these claims without proof. Please, tell me you have a PhD in Engineering Optics and can tell him that the lens on his photodiode on the power meter may be polarized so rotating the laser will produce a read error of drop in power. If you can tell us something like that, you will be highly respected among all of us.

I do not believe for a minute Mike meant it that way. Read into it..Mike first says:

I have to agree with his readings. (I think he has better meters than me !!)

The way I read the rest of it is Mike is agreeing pseudo. He goes on to say the readings need to be verified...the lasers are currently back with DL so the ball is now in their court.

Thanks Gazoo. I'm trying to fight 2 battles here and got a little carried away. Thanks for the clarification. Mike, thanks bud.

I'm on pseudo's side all the way. I received a shoddy service from DL when they started in business. The 125mW was way under spec and I ended having to pay return shipping even when they promised to pay it later on. As usual PayPal weren't any help.

Personally, I think anyone should bother with DL, but if you really want to give them a try then use a credit card through PayPal so you can do a chargeback.

wondergimp said:

quote author=Hemlock Mike link=1189545082/0#7 date=1189570985]
I figure that if I need 100 mW +++ CW,  I won't get something powered by aaa cells !!!    Psuedo's current readings on his 125's are truly poor and need to be verified.  This is a strange marketplace but my DL95 survives hell in my pocket.
Mike

Click to expand...

Mike, you are very Correct! If one desired a stable 10mw, 50mW, or 100mW, they would not buy something powered by 2 AAA $2.00 batteries. Instead, they would buy a module with an aluminum heatsink, TEC cooling, maybe liquid cooling, and a regulated power supply. But guess what? Even these can have problems. See our very good friend Boomdog.

I also agree with you about it being a strange market place. I've had a CNI that was awful switched beam modes constantly and was just pathetic. See this pic. Nevermind, apparently I can't post links. (yeah, thats 3 beams) I've also had a CNI that is exactly how you described yours. It was rock solid and was amazing.

But I disagree with you on the readings of Carter. Why? You have no evidence for your claims. Prove to me why HIS readings are "truly poor and need to be verified." Do you have a power meter? Do you have more experience/insight than he does? There is no way you can make these claims without proof. Please, tell me you have a PhD in Engineering Optics and can tell him that the lens on his photodiode on the power meter may be polarized so rotating the laser will produce a read error of drop in power. If you can tell us something like that, you will be highly respected among all of us. [/quote]

CRAP like this - is EXACTLY what I have come to expect from the majority of the "WL ELDERS".

Flying off the handle, half cocked, and not knowing what the hell they are talking about. Good thing you left, Wondergimp, IF you had taken the time to read posts on here, you would see where it has been requested to take fights to PM's...if you plan on ridiculing someone, you will end up losing in a big way, guarranteed. Good riddance. Pseudo - premptive strike here....but if he HAD planned on making any contributions on this forum - he has missed the mark severely. Yes, one wrong comment can damn someone in my mind - permanently. I was even willing to give him a chance, when he was too stuck up and full of hiimself to answer my many emails and PM's sent to him WAY earlier this year. Thus far, the only thing out of his mouth has been attempting to belittle everyone else's comments. So, I say - GOOD RIDDANCE, and GOOD BYE, Wondergimp.

We all make mistakes SenKat. I know I'm in no position to challenge your authority, but I don't agree if you've banned him :-/. Other than this, I've only seen good posts out of gimp.

pseudonomen137 said:

We all make mistakes SenKat. I know I'm in no position to challenge your authority, but I don't agree if you've banned him  :-/. Other than this, I've only seen good posts out of gimp.

Click to expand...

I did not ban him - he left of his own accord. I have only seen CRAP posts from him today - I agree everyone has bad days, but these kind of assumptions from a NOOB on this forum (regardless of his god-hood on LC) really irk the hell out of me, and will not be tolerated. Let's just say he left before he was banned, and good riddance.