An Apology for Everyone

LEDbeam · Apr 17, 2016

Razako said:
There's no justice until people have their damn items or money back. Some of us are out $400+ right now.

This guy has done grievous harm to the reputation of LPF and our hobby. Probably a lot of newer members or lurkers who ordered from him will just swear off lasers entirely thinking the community is full of scammers. Not to mention the nonstop drama which has driven people away.

I mean he was the god damn top site sponsor. When I ordered I didn't think I was buying from a poorly managed 1-2 man operation. I patiently waited over a month without starting any drama. I only jumped into the fray when I was given phony tracking # and shipping info.

Eitan I suggest you make this right somehow or you're gonna go down as the top scammer in the HISTORY of this forum and hobby. The very name of your company will be used as an insult when talking about non-reputable companies. Freaking known ripoff companies like biglasers/Warnlaser etc are more reputable than this. At least they actually send you something, or you get your money back.

Figures...This is what we get for trusting a guy named after a batman villain.

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I believe he could actually come back if he simply stood back and realistically evaluated what he can do. If he can build 20 lasers in a week, then that should be what he considers his "stock on hand" and then he could mark something as "out of stock" when the orders for the week exceed that number. It's simply a matter of evaluating what one person can do as a one person business and not overextending himself.

RedCowboy · Apr 17, 2016

Click on his advertisement. up there ^^^^ Scroll up top and click on it.

Razako · Apr 17, 2016

LEDbeam said:
Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I believe he could actually come back if he simply stood back and realistically evaluated what he can do. If he can build 20 lasers in a week, then that should be what he considers his "stock on hand" and then he could mark something as "out of stock" when the orders for the week exceed that number. It's simply a matter of evaluating what one person can do as a one person business and not overextending himself.

The shop is gone and his paypal is probably locked due to all the claims.
At this point it comes down to whether he wants to leave with honor and make things right, or simply screw hundreds of people over.

LEDbeam · Apr 17, 2016

RedCowboy said:
Click on his advertisement. up there ^^^^ Scroll up top and click on it.

Already did. But after this is all over and the claims are paid out and orders cancelled and everyone happy, the site could be revived again as quickly as it was taken down, and business can resume. I'm just pointing out how it could be done better.

Yoshi1988 · Apr 17, 2016

I hope Israeli prisons are nice pal, don't drop the soap, buddy.

Razako · Apr 17, 2016

LEDbeam said:
Already did. But after this is all over and the claims are paid out and orders cancelled and everyone happy, the site could be revived again as quickly as it was taken down, and business can resume. I'm just pointing out how it could be done better.

I don't think there's any coming back from this kind of mess. He pretty much admitted to running a business where he was depending on incoming orders to pay for the production of his current orders. That's a VERY slippery slope. It comes down to whether he wants to be remembered as a decent guy who made some mistakes, or as the biggest scammer in LPF history.

LEDbeam · Apr 17, 2016

Razako said:
I don't think there's any coming back from this kind of mess. He pretty much admitted to running a business where he was depending on incoming orders to pay for the production of his current orders. That's a VERY slippery slope. It comes down to whether he wants to be remembered as a decent guy who made some mistakes, or as the biggest scammer in LPF history.

Exactly! Decent guys who make mistakes (and admit to them) have a chance to correct those mistakes and proceed from there.

RedCowboy · Apr 17, 2016

He said " and I have to live " he was spending the money, on his bills.

At the same time , I need to live. I can not keep the money in my PayPal account for 180 days before taking it out. Comon ? it does not make any sense. I had to buy a lot of parts with it , and had to live too.

LEDbeam · Apr 17, 2016

RedCowboy said:
He said " and I have to live " he was spending the money, on his bills.

I guess he'd pretty much have to use it at some point. Businesses make money, and then use the money to take care of their expenses.

Razako · Apr 17, 2016

LEDbeam said:
I guess he'd pretty much have to use it at some point. Businesses make money, and then use the money to take care of their expenses.

Yes. They take care of their personal bills and expenses AFTER paying their operating costs(Parts and labor etc).

What if I was an entrepreneur starting up a E-cig company or something. I get $10,000 for several hundred orders that people have made on my site. Say it will take $7000 in parts and labor to get the e-cigs built and shipped to the customers. That would leave $3000 in profit for my trouble. What happens if I spend $5000 of that initial $10,000 on to pay off some debts, and to pay my living expenses? Suddenly I'm gonna have a huge freaking problem when I need to get all those E-cigs built and shipped out.

Joker seems to have justified this by thinking "oh I'll just use the money from even more orders to cover the expense of getting the items out". The problem arose when nervous customers started filing claims and his business dropped off as a result of all the complains. That's how we arrived at the current flaming wreck of a situation.

trussmonkey25 · Apr 17, 2016

Sci fi Went the way of the Tucker. Good laser, good design, but he just got in way too deep. :-(

Razako · Apr 17, 2016

trussmonkey25 said:
Sci fi Went the way of the Tucker. Good laser, good design, but he just got in way too deep. :-(

-Well the prices were too cheap so he couldn't make good money so he had to dip into the operating funds of his company to make ends meet.
-The cheap prices brought in more orders than he could handle.
-He offered really cheap shipping and lost even more money on that.

He basically just plain needed to have his prices more on-par with jetlasers/sanwu etc and make people pay for expedited shipping. He would have lost some business, but it would have averted this nightmarish mess.

VirtueViolater · Apr 17, 2016

trussmonkey25 said:
Sci fi Went the way of the Tucker. Good laser, good design, but he just got in way too deep. :-(

Yup, he tuckered out allright lol

Yoshi1988 · Apr 17, 2016

I can't believe some of you allowed him to give you the run around this long... If it is to late for you to file a claim I am sorry... But I can't believe some members actually got mad at me for calling him out and filing a claim... I'm not gonna sit on my thumbs and let this guy continue to scam people so you can hold onto a false hope of Eitan doing you right. If he was a honest guy you would have got your laser regardless of what I did... I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night.. It took me a grand total of about a day to see what he was doing.. He's using delay tactics to keep people from filing claims... If he can get you out past that time mark that you can file, he is in the clear. And from the sounds of it buttered up a lot of people with sweet talk to get them out to the point of no return.. Don't buy his lies.

EllyEnthusiastic · Apr 17, 2016

RedCowboy said:
He emptied it as much as he could long before now.
I don't know what pay-pal will do out of their pocket after this long, if his account is empty it's their buyer protection insurance and that doesn't look good this far out.

I will see what I can read about their protection, but you are at close to 60 days Right?

I'm at 63 days, though I escalated my claim on day 59.

RedCowboy said:
https://www.paypal.com/sg/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#7

Read what it says about items not covered

CUSTOM MADE ITEMS and PROHIBTED ITEMS

PP will have already looked at his site and know what the items are, if they deem them prohibited they don't have to pay.

Plus there is no telling how many non members have filed a claim.

I can't be sure one way or the other, but they won't pay if they can get out of it.

If anyone gets a reimbursement or a rejection then post it so others will know.

Damn damn damn. I guess I should be glad I ordered one of Joker's 'cheaper' items .. I'm only out $80 and not $400 .. still, damn damn damn.

At least I have my green 303!

Razako · Apr 17, 2016

I just hope he's lying about having no money left in paypal. If paypal doesn't cover this then things are gonna get REALLY ugly REALLY fast around here. I wonder if it would be possible to go directly to my bank and have them reverse the charge or something...

An Apology for Everyone

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