An Apology for Everyone

LEDbeam said:

I took care of it for you.

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Double took care of it for you! I liked the "found $0.02" part hehe :beer:

-Alex

RedCowboy said:

After joker repays what he stole he should be banned, not for stealing peoples money, but for the other rules he broke.

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This is true. A number of forum rules were broken, and that portion is in no way up for debate.

Once the situation settles down a permaban should go in effect.

OVNI said:

I'm not saying Eitan shouldn't pay out of some other funds but from his point of view, he may end up paying twice if PayPal rules in the Buyer's favor.

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He wouldn't. He can still transfer funds to paypal anytime, and refund the disputed orders, closing them down.

InfinitusEquitas said:

This is true. A number of forum rules were broken, and that portion is in no way up for debate.

Once the situation settles down a permaban should go in effect.

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What about the legality of the issue? Was that cleared up?

InfinitusEquitas said:

He wouldn't. He can still transfer funds to paypal anytime, and refund the disputed orders, closing them down.

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I had three disputes last month. Escalated all three. It did not work that way for me. After I escalated, the Seller changed their mind and tried to refund but could not. They said there was no longer a link to refund/close the claim. I, however, saw that I could close it all the way until the end (and of course PayPal).

What I was suggesting is that there is money in his account but only PayPal controls it right now.

I also know from experience that a seller can still tell paypal at any point to close the claim in the buyers favor.

IIRC seller can only offer refund easily up to the point of a claim. Once dispute is escalated to a claim, the option to just refund may go away. There may also be some differences in how it works exactly with Joker since he is in Israel.

I can't believe Eitan that you are blaming your screw ups on the customers lack of patience. 6 months for a laser order and dozens if not hundreds of intentionally given fals tracking numbers? Really you think that is impatient? I have been telling you this day was coming for close to a 9 months now. You got in way over your head with dishonest practices and at times flat out lying to your customers and are cowardly passing the buck rather than own up to it. Its an insult to title this thread an apology when in actuality its a accusation of blame.

I hope he is no longer accepting new orders via CC or money transfers. People should be warned against buying from sci-fi.

GSS said:

Alien this guy in the pic's is supposed to be the one that wanted your phone number HeHe! to sell him a laser

A bit off this thread topic but it goes with what IE. mentioned as to not to much personal info out in open forum and yes best bet is to go through a willing vet.

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maybe lol :crackup:

Hi,
All these posts i see about this guy Well the bottom line is don't buy from him if you are a little worried about getting your units. This stuff is going no where fast to be honest with you folks. It's getting drier than a popcorn fart. Lets talk about real laser builds and get back to basics. Sorry i don't n
mean to offend anyone it's freedom of speech but it is what it is .. My last and final post about this guy.. Good luck to all

Rich

Lifetime17 said:

Hi,
All these posts i see about this guy Well the bottom line is don't buy from him if you are a little worried about getting your units. This stuff is going no where fast to be honest with you folks. It's getting drier than a popcorn fart. Lets talk about real laser builds and get back to basics. Sorry i don't n
mean to offend anyone it's freedom of speech but it is what it is .. My last and final post about this guy.. Good luck to all

Rich

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Agree lets get back to = laser's

Alien Laser said:

Agree lets get back to = laser's

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I don't disagree-- but to any mods listening, let's wait till we have a resolution (Paypal claims start getting fulfilled, Joker actually apologizes and starts to fix his screw ups, etc etc) before this thread gets locked.

I bet as soon as his pay pal is unlocked his ad will work and he will be taking orders, everyone will get paid back in time.

That's what I expect, but I could be wrong.

I will never buy anything from him and if people are complaining about fake tracking then I will warn people, but if he is given a 2nd chance then I will ignore it all, so long as new people are not getting cheated.

As far as justice for his wrong doings, forget about it, I don't think he will get banned, not while he is willing to pay for that ad.

But this is just my opinion, so I suggest everyone get their money back and enjoy the forum, just ignore him and never trust him again, unless you want to, I don't.

The sad truth is that it was clear that he was running a fraud for some time. I have lurked here longer than posted, but as a fraud examiner all the traits were there. What makes things worse is that he was selling into the USA electronics that are highly regulated. I realize this is a global board, but US laws do little good and paypal may not refund money if they know what the transaction was for.

Not to blaime any of his victims - and those he stole from are victims - but there are some lessons from this one should always remember.
1) A good price is meaningless if delivery is questionable. This is true here, especially kickstarter and overall paying upfront for goods not in stock is rarely in the buyers best interest.
2) There is little to nothing you can do legally when you are scammed by someone outside your country. At least i can sue in my State - win a judgement against someone in another state - and enforce the UCC and mail fraud statutes. Not an option against someone in Israel or China.
3) When a vendor has delivery issues and runs a sale - run. away. Fast.
4) Trust but verify. He probably - one time - had a mixup in tracking. It worked and he went to the well past any reasonanle likelyhood.
5) Whoever hosts this board should have shut down his link a while ago. It says something that he was allowed the veneer of respectibility as he cheated people who trusted him because of this board.

I know it is a hard thing to accept when you have been duped. People pointing out what he should have done miss that once he started using deposits for living expenses, he had passed to the dark side - it was inevitable that he would get there.

Many people can be reluctant to push someone that is holding your money and goods - but that is part of the scam.

He is blaiming his victims for holding him accountable to his promises. His note to the board should have just stated that he ran out of money and will not be delivering goods. Paypal can only do so much - and im not sure what their exposure is for sales of goods in violation of US import laws.

It sucks. Its all his fault.

im happy i was never scammed. I have bought 3 lasers from him in the passed 2 years and all while took 1 - 2 months to receive(fast compared to others) always got my laser in perfect condition and none of them broke. well one did but that was my fault.

First two went smooth with the correct tracking but the last one i get a tracking that went to California. I emailed him 5 times and eventually like 2 weeks later got the correct one. then the laser arrived 5 days later. last one took 2 months total to receive from date of order maybe 3 months i forget now.

I consider my self lucky. I was about to order one 3 weeks ago. Im happy i did not because it seams like in the last 4 months its really went down hill fast.

Yoshi1988 said:

It's as simple as this.... If you filed a claim with PayPal before 60 days you are fine... If you allowed Eitan to Jack you around longer then that you are pretty much s.o.l.

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Hi.
I have paid at March 26,and learning what happens,I raised a dispute yesterday.What should be my next step?And how much time I have for this?

Theodore41 said:

Hi.
I have paid at March 26,and learning what happens,I raised a dispute yesterday.What should be my next step?And how much time I have for this?

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The rules may vary with the countries involved. Here in the USA, you can find out the timelines and deadlines in PayPal's Resolution Center. Once you dispute a transaction, it appears there (when logged in) with additional info. The dispute phase is a time period that essentially puts the Seller (and PayPal) on notice but PayPal prefers the Buyer and Seller work it out and doesn't get involved but merely brokers communication between the Buyer and Seller. If you cannot work it out, then you can escalate. You may have to wait before you can escalate, sometimes not. Once escalated, PayPal reviews the dispute and claim and makes a ruling. Buyers and Sellers are no longer consulted nor can they voluntarily submit additional info from my experiences.

The rules for your country are probably there somewhere too via another link. Or you can start with info for Buyers, look for how to handle problems, etc.

OVNI said:

The rules may vary with the countries involved. Here in the USA, you can find out the timelines and deadlines in PayPal's Resolution Center. Once you dispute a transaction, it appears there (when logged in) with additional info. The dispute phase is a time period that essentially puts the Seller (and PayPal) on notice but PayPal prefers the Buyer and Seller work it out and doesn't get involved but merely brokers communication between the Buyer and Seller. If you cannot work it out, then you can escalate. You may have to wait before you can escalate, sometimes not. Once escalated, PayPal reviews the dispute and claim and makes a ruling. Buyers and Sellers are no longer consulted nor can they voluntarily submit additional info from my experiences.

The rules for your country are probably there somewhere too via another link. Or you can start with info for Buyers, look for how to handle problems, etc.

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Thank you very much.