An Apology for Everyone

Rivem said:

Asking people not to make claims is ridiculous. The proper thing to to would be to email all the customers whose orders you can fulfill that their laser is delayed but still doable and just hope they're okay with it.

The only way to keep tons of people from disputing is to just refund them yourself or get them what they asked for in a reasonable amount of time.

Just asking people not to put claims up increases the risk for them.

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Closing claims/disputes is actually one of the worst things people can do. If you close it you cannot re-open it. Don't close until you either have the money or a product in your hands.

The banner ad is still flashing but the store is closed, paypal must have shut him down, you guys saved a lot more people from the hurt and threats if they live in Netherlands or one of the harsh laser laws countries, those buyers got threats and lost their money and some sleep I bet.

HIS STORE IS CLOSED! He can steal no more. No one else will be told you will get in soon buddy, the post office lost it buddy, this number will work buddy, you will have in very soon, cool?

And for people in the Netherlands:
I will report you to your government if you file a dispute and that dispute will be proof against you, hope you like jail buddy.

People are not patient? Really?

5 months for a laser? Get outta here dude.

-Alex

Then why do you keep accepting orders while you can't fullfil them. You should close the store when you are loaded and out of parts and not lie about it and keep a pile of pending orders. Come on you are sending fake tracking to people just to shut them for a week or two until they realize the truth. Here you are basically asking customers to give you the money so you can enjoy you life while asking them to keep silent and not ask about their orders until you decide it's the time to deliver.

Hap said:

People are not patient? Really?

5 months for a laser? Get outta here dude.

-Alex

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You beat me to it.

I think IE descibed his apology best, a rambling mess...blaming customers for opening cases, really? .

Unbelievable .

Ok joker... You really have good intentions and wanna help your costumers? Refund my money today... Hahaha yeah right I know you ain't gonna do that.. Do you feel that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach? That's the feeling I had when I realized I was scammed for $400.... How dare you blame paying customers for your bad business management? If you are gonna take months to finish a product you really shouldn't put built in 5-10 days on your website... You are full of lies and excuses and we arn't buying it anymore.

I can sympathize with you, but I still want my money back.

Eitan... I can see you are viewing this thread... So I know you are reading this... Will you refund my money today or not??

QUOTE by ELLY: I can sympathize with you, but I still want my money back. : END QUOTE



:undecided: Brace yourself for the worse Elly, then if you do get even a partial it will seem like a good thing.

RedCowboy said:

QUOTE by ELLY: I can sympathize with you, but I still want my money back. : END QUOTE



:undecided: Brace yourself for the worse Elly, then if you do get even a partial it will seem like a good thing.

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I just emailed Joker asking for a refund, this was his reply:

I do not have any money on PayPal. Just try to get it to a claim. I can not refund you at the moment although I want to.

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With his store down, I'm hazarding a guess that his whole Paypal account has been frozen.

He emptied it as much as he could long before now.
I don't know what pay-pal will do out of their pocket after this long, if his account is empty it's their buyer protection insurance and that doesn't look good this far out.

I will see what I can read about their protection, but you are at close to 60 days Right?

What in the actual hell was he doing? Relying on future orders to pay for his current ones? Reminds me of the damn 2008 financial crisis where everybody was investing by buying the rights to bad loans which could never be paid off. Was this ever the plan for a sound business or was he just intending to run a scam from the start? Where the hell did the money from the initial orders go? That is what was supposed to go to parts and labor. This whole "close your paypal disputes so I can get the orders done thing is INSANE. Utterly INSANE!"

I don't have a business degree and even I can see the insanity of the business he was running.

Let's rapid fire on joker's false claims, shall we?

Thejoker301 said:

Hi Everyone ,

I was not online for like a week or even more.

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That's your problem

Thejoker301 said:

it seems you got your own theories.

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You mean facts of your scams?

Thejoker301 said:

Anyways ... here it is , the truth.

I have started building lasers over here back in blah blah laser building blah

...

A lot of order means a lot of work , I thought I could handle it. But I could not. Even though I have hired someone to help. But yet I could not finish all orders on timely manner.

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Eitan, if your company becomes successful you need to build on it's success and hire people, and move on. You clearly don't know business evolution. If you weren't prepared for this, you should not have gotten into it in the first place.

Thejoker301 said:

I have started to get a lot of complaints

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Thejoker301 said:

But then , cases started to appear. At start I tried to handle it , but then too many cases have been opened which means Negative PayPal balance.

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I wonder why

Thejoker301 said:

chinese people manufacturing my products blah blah

At the same time , I need to live. I can not keep the money in my PayPal account for 180 days before taking it out. Comon ? it does not make any sense. I had to buy a lot of parts with it , and had to live too.

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Wtf is this? Again, if you're saying you have no time for this, you shouldn't have got into it in the first place. You said you have a job aside from sci-fi, so maybe you should've focused on that instead critically "blocking" your free time with this company. I hate when people do this, because they give no consideration of the future and how things may affect them, and as a result it puts others (your customers) in a shit storm because YOU have no thought out way of proceeding.

Let's move on.

Thejoker301 said:

I am at a point in which I can not take care of orders. I can take care of about 20 more orders and than I just can not as there is no money to buy parts with at all.

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Then stop taking peoples money and not doing anything.

Thejoker301 said:

People these days are not patient.

If people would have waited. And not ask me for a tracking code everyday saying if my order is not going out soon I am canceling it ... it would look differently.

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Let me recite what Hap said, his thoughts are mine.
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Hap said:

People are not patient? Really?

5 months for a laser? Get outta here dude.

-Alex

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Thejoker301 said:

waaa im so stressed blahh

In a world where we would have a patient customer , that would wait even after a month he did not receive a custom made product which is being assembled from many parts which are being sourced from worldwide locations. This business would grown well.

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Is this a joke? This is where I got angry...

Your business did grow joker, but you didn't do anything good enough to move on with that growth and your business was growing faster than your capabilities were. Any customer could wait a month, and I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem if there were a valid reason for the wait. But when you say you use express to send the item, and they wait more than 4 months for an order, that's complete shit.

Thejoker301 said:

You will not here back from me.

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This is not anything new

Thejoker301 said:

Do what ever you want , if you choose not to open a dispute or close the one you already opened , it will help get orders done. As of now 20+- can be finished. But after that no more. If you guys want the lasers done please do. Otherwise I have no way of doing anything with it at all.

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You literally just contradicted what you just said. You said "you will not here back from me" and you then proceed to say if people close disputes you'll get orders done? Lol, funny.

That's quite the apology, joker, except it's really not at all. More so you saying how bad you are at running your company, calling your customers impatient, and then begging them to close disputes so you can get money their money.

Let's take a look what others are saying, yeah?

VirtueViolater said:

Oh, if anyone falls for the 20 lasers buildable so don't file, you deserve to lose your $

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RedCowboy said:

Bool sheet !

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RedCowboy said:

EXACTLY, he would like people to not make a claim so he can fix more lasers, GIVE ME A BREAK!

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DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH!

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Interesting.

RedCowboy said:

The banner ad is still flashing but the store is closed, paypal must have shut him down, you guys saved a lot more people from the hurt and threats if they live in Netherlands or one of the harsh laser laws countries, those buyers got threats and lost their money and some sleep I bet.

HIS STORE IS CLOSED! He can steal no more. No one else will be told you will get in soon buddy, the post office lost it buddy, this number will work buddy, you will have in very soon, cool?

And for people in the Netherlands:
I will report you to your government if you file a dispute and that dispute will be proof against you, hope you like jail buddy.

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Couldn't be happier to see this. That's justice right there, and it's well deserved. Good job eliminated a scammer LPF, it's a shame he was a sponsor to the site and not just someone random, but it's for the best.

https://www.paypal.com/sg/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#7

Read what it says about items not covered

CUSTOM MADE ITEMS and PROHIBTED ITEMS

PP will have already looked at his site and know what the items are, if they deem them prohibited they don't have to pay.

Plus there is no telling how many non members have filed a claim.

I can't be sure one way or the other, but they won't pay if they can get out of it.

If anyone gets a reimbursement or a rejection then post it so others will know.

ElectricPlasma said:

Let's rapid fire on joker's false claims,
Couldn't be happier to see this. That's justice right there, and it's well deserved. Good job eliminated a scammer LPF, it's a shame he was a sponsor to the site and not just someone random, but it's for the best.

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There's no justice until people have their damn items or money back. Some of us are out $400+ right now.

This guy has done grievous harm to the reputation of LPF and our hobby. Probably a lot of newer members or lurkers who ordered from him will just swear off lasers entirely thinking the community is full of scammers. Not to mention the nonstop drama which has driven people away.

I mean he was the god damn top site sponsor. When I ordered I didn't think I was buying from a poorly managed 1-2 man operation. I patiently waited over a month without starting any drama. I only jumped into the fray when I was given phony tracking # and shipping info.

Eitan I suggest you make this right somehow or you're gonna go down as the top scammer in the HISTORY of this forum and hobby. The very name of your company will be used as an insult when talking about non-reputable companies. Freaking known ripoff companies like biglasers/Warnlaser etc are more reputable than this. At least they actually send you something, or you get your money back.

Figures...This is what we get for trusting a guy named after a batman villain.

I'm happy I only ordered one of the cheaper lasers... At least he finally gives an answer. Yes, what makes most customers, including me, make angry is the false tracking numbers. That's no way of doing business. Better be honest, I would better like if he had told me the delivery time would be many months from the beginning. Than I wouldn't send him numerous emails and that would have saved him time answering all these mails from his customers. He created his own problem.