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Old 11-24-2016, 09:09 PM #17
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Hi CDBEAM,

Please let me some remarks about hosts for multidiode sets, what may be interesting for you to consider for this or other builds.

When doing 8W blaster with two NUBM07E I have checked several handdrills and have chosen the biggest from the cheap ones (with Ni-Cd battery).
The obvious advantage of hand drill host for multidiode build was that it had wiring ready for high amperage, but after motor was removed the space inside was only good to squeeze in the device on a small 40mm wide baseplate.

Other choices I have considered with more internal space could be a reciprocal saw or (as I once mentioned in another thread) a medium size leaf blower with Li battery. But this might be too big already...

At the moment I consider to try as host the body of Halogen spotlight POWli310 (one of few which still have lead battery and in this way are cheap).
I bought one and checked the space inside. After throwing away lead battery one can insert there a 90mm wide baseplate which would touch (or can be fixed to) the aluminium body.
Of course one will have to add a LiPo battery from RC plane or similar as power source but this could give more modularity/flexibility compared to a premade torch host.

What do you think?


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Old 11-25-2016, 01:48 AM #18
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light superglue View Post
Hi CDBEAM,

Please let me some remarks about hosts for multidiode sets, what may be interesting for you to consider for this or other builds.

When doing 8W blaster with two NUBM07E I have checked several handdrills and have chosen the biggest from the cheap ones (with Ni-Cd battery).
The obvious advantage of hand drill host for multidiode build was that it had wiring ready for high amperage, but after motor was removed the space inside was only good to squeeze in the device on a small 40mm wide baseplate.

Other choices I have considered with more internal space could be a reciprocal saw or (as I once mentioned in another thread) a medium size leaf blower with Li battery. But this might be too big already...

At the moment I consider to try as host the body of Halogen spotlight POWli310 (one of few which still have lead battery and in this way are cheap).
I bought one and checked the space inside. After throwing away lead battery one can insert there a 90mm wide baseplate which would touch (or can be fixed to) the aluminium body.
Of course one will have to add a LiPo battery from RC plane or similar as power source but this could give more modularity/flexibility compared to a premade torch host.

What do you think?
HHmmmm ??? I think...As our optic demands increase...and or our power demands....the convential host may need to evolve to a larger off-the-shelf platform.

As usual, we balance aesthetics ...with practicality ....against the backdrop of ergonomics !!!!! Many Masters to serve...Indeed !!!

I can speak for myself....that the " Steampunk " look has some appeal. But....many do not feel that way !

Also, the use of a host that has an interchangeable LiPo power pack is also a very nice feature....as is a host that sports a rugged tool type construction !

The adaptation of a portable drill type format is practical...but....I am just having a hard time accepting the format. Likely....it is so far from our current convention..and....it is ....well...." Weapon-like "....I just cannot go that direction.....yet !!! Maybe....I will change my position ??? Dunno ??

I still like the " Lantern Style "....as seen with the " Purple pHaze " build !!!

And....as a final consideration....cost. It seems somewhat ....er....annoying to buy a $ 100 host....just to gut/hack it ....and pitch 50% of the parts that cost $$$ !!!

Now....we could just remain with the standard three (3) D cell configuration....and stuff the host with three (3) 26650 LiPo cells....yes....that is an option....and is what RB is doing for his single build !! My speculation is that three (3) 26650 cells will meet the current demands of dual RGB Opt Laser modules.

But...For the "White Lightning" build....I would like to explore some different and more compact options !!....such as the Makita 12V Flashlight unit !! The major cost there is the 12V LiPo pac...and the LiPo charger....and they are not thrown away !!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Makita-12V-L...3D112118626377

SO.....before I explore a more radical platform.....my current thinking is to machine an Aluminum front end.....which will have a round extension which will enter the Makita body....and be mechanically bolted to the body from the inside. This Aluminum Add on will be the foundation for the two (2) Opt RGB units.

Well..LSG....thank's for your suggestion's !!! Many other radical host considerations will also work...and work well....but for now.....I will continue to stick with the Makita unit as the lead host candidate !!

Note: post a link to your build's...or post some pics !!!

CDBEAM
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Last edited by CDBEAM777; 11-25-2016 at 02:24 AM. Reason: Added Makita link and more blah, blah
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:05 AM #19
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Full Stop !! Major design flaw !! In my haste to incorporate those beautiful RGB OPT Laser modules....I forgot....You cannot PBS combine an RGB beam....with another RGB beam !!!

Optics 101---DUH--- With different wavelengths...one will derive differing angles of refraction....SOoooo....when an RGB beam passes thru a PBS cube....the three colours will spread....and there goes your nice tight beam....
Remember...sunlight passing thru a prism....what do ya get ??? a spread out rainbow !!! The same thing will happen to our RGB beam !!!

OK....I have a work around....not an easy one...hahaha.....Since when do the Gods Of Optics ever make things easy ????

The solution demands that each color is PBS combined.....then these dual beams are combined with Dichroic filters....SIGH !!!!! I know how to do it....but....the price and complexity of the build just increased !!

I have a design....but....I must do a concept drawing to show you. I still may order the Opt Laser units....but will abandoned their base plate and go with a " _l_ " style base plate.....an upside down T shape.....for the LD mounts must be at a 90 degree relationship to each other.....so....the modules go on one side of the " _l_ " channel....and the Dichroic filters on the other side of the " _l_ " channel !!

So...we will use three (3) separate PBS cubes vs one (1) PBS cube....No big deal.....but....as I said....more $$, more complexity, more alignment demands...and a little more space required !!

Maybe I can get Opt Laser to make it...but...as I said...I know how to do it !!! Stink'in Optics God's !!!

Later...CDBEAM
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Last edited by CDBEAM777; 11-27-2016 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 11-27-2016, 05:21 AM #20
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Dag knabbit, but it can be done! We could make one for six diodes combined RGB this way, wish I could double them up again for 12 diodes coaxially, that would be so awesome but 800mw of single mode RGB is already so. If we could figure a way to do 12 diodes I'd commission it, but I don't see how to do so without knife edging two sets of three cubes together. Perhaps the whole thing would become too large if that many. I would be happy with knife edging more, but just two sets? It might look a bit strange having a beam with a dark line in the middle and knife edging four to make the beam more balanced appearing way too much stuff, it would set your hair on fire trying to align it.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:56 PM #21
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Dag knabbit, but it can be done! We could make one for six diodes combined RGB this way, wish I could double them up again for 12 diodes coaxially, that would be so awesome but 800mw of single mode RGB is already so. If we could figure a way to do 12 diodes I'd commission it, but I don't see how to do so without knife edging two sets of three cubes together. Perhaps the whole thing would become too large if that many. I would be happy with knife edging more, but just two sets? It might look a bit strange having a beam with a dark line in the middle and knife edging four to make the beam more balanced appearing way too much stuff, it would set your hair on fire trying to align it.
Well...I think six (6) single mode diodes will likely be the practical limit in a HH Combiner format. And...I agree that Knife edging will not deliver the energy density/aesthetics we are going for ! The Six banger can be done !!!!

If we want more raw power....well then....we will have to shift to the Multimode LD engine....but....that has correction optics demands....and...the resultant beam will not be as clean as a single mode. Always trade-offs !!

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Old 11-27-2016, 05:52 PM #22
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Six banger, I will commission that if you want to do so, but give me until Dec 15 to buy the parts, if you agree.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:16 PM #23
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

You confused me, CDBEAM,

Why should there be refraction if incidence angle is 0 degrees? Cube is not a prism.

Sine of 0 is 0, so sine of 0 devided by sine of 0 (devided by 0!) must be ratio between light speeds in air and PBS cube glass...

Already forgot physics, but I wanted to say that if all beams enter PBS cube exactly perpendicularly to its surface all 3 should keep their direction, then some are reflected by mirror some not (all staying in the same media), then reach the surface from inside at 0 and go out at 0.

Not right?

Oh, maybe divergence of each of 3 colours will change differently but do they have same divergence originally?
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:04 PM #24
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light superglue View Post
You confused me, CDBEAM,

Why should there be refraction if incidence angle is 0 degrees? Cube is not a prism.

Sine of 0 is 0, so sine of 0 devided by sine of 0 (devided by 0!) must be ratio between light speeds in air and PBS cube glass...

Already forgot physics, but I wanted to say that if all beams enter PBS cube exactly perpendicularly to its surface all 3 should keep their direction, then some are reflected by mirror some not (all staying in the same media), then reach the surface from inside at 0 and go out at 0.

Not right?

Oh, maybe divergence of each of 3 colours will change differently but do they have same divergence originally?
MMmmmmm....welcome to the group....for I confuse myself !!!

OK...A PBS cube...is two (2) prism's.....glued together with Optical Glue

I will study some more...but...I am fairly sure....one cannot use a PBS cube to combine two (2) RGB beams.

Again, I refer to the effect of sunlight ( All colours )passing thru a prism....the medium of B7 glass causes different wavelength to bend and diverge. Will get back here asap.

CDBEAM
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:39 PM #25
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Hello Guys. Nice to see that you are mentioning our product.

The footprint of the RGB module can be made smaller but not much, probably around 2mm each side.

It is possible to join the beam with broadband beamsplitter. We even did such thing for one of our customers.

uRGB module is burning wood without fousing at 50cm distance, the power density is really small and beam spot at 10 meters can be covered with little finger. If you are open for any orders we can create such build, insluding two modules minimalizing them together. It can be done even without beamsplitter, just with knife edge since beam at the output is around 5x2 so why not make it 5x4

Additionall please remember we are Opt Lasers with "s" in the end The story is short, at the very beggining when I was still a student we created a Start Up company it was called Opt Laser. Then I got to know that there is a Chinese company called the same when I found investors together with friends we decided t ostick with a name just adding "s" in the end It can be misleading sometimes but overall we just like the name.

If you have any question about the products, please let me know!
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:21 AM #26
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomorrows System View Post
Hello Guys. Nice to see that you are mentioning our product.

The footprint of the RGB module can be made smaller but not much, probably around 2mm each side.

It is possible to join the beam with broadband beamsplitter. We even did such thing for one of our customers.

uRGB module is burning wood without fousing at 50cm distance, the power density is really small and beam spot at 10 meters can be covered with little finger. If you are open for any orders we can create such build, insluding two modules minimalizing them together. It can be done even without beamsplitter, just with knife edge since beam at the output is around 5x2 so why not make it 5x4

Additionall please remember we are Opt Lasers with "s" in the end The story is short, at the very beggining when I was still a student we created a Start Up company it was called Opt Laser. Then I got to know that there is a Chinese company called the same when I found investors together with friends we decided t ostick with a name just adding "s" in the end It can be misleading sometimes but overall we just like the name.

If you have any question about the products, please let me know!
This is just Great I am sure Mateusz has forgotten more about optics than I know !!! Just look at their offering on the RGB module ! I assure you that the price on the RGB module is a really good value !!!! I am sure the components alone...are more costly than the assembled price....and one knows it works !!!!

Now....knife edge...to get a 5 x 4 mm geometry....all I can say....is PERFECT....and T I G H T !!!

AND...Opt Lasers will engineer the dual !!!....... and will minimize the overall footprint.....It is a No Brainer !!!! I will buy the completed unit from them !!!

SOoooo...What host. ???...how to couple the modules to the host ???....I have several options....and will want to work with Opt to make the mechanical connection EZ !! But...in the end...the optical considerations will drive the mechanical design !!!@

Now.....the host selection will need to be adapted to the module ~ host coupling design !!

I was not yet able to locate the 12V Makita Flashlight unit in a local store....
Sooooo....may have to order one to evaluate.

Thanx Mateusz !!!!!! I really look forward to working with you on this HH Combiner !!

And....I am very thankful....that RB is blazing the trail with the Genesis Project !!!!

Those ultra small slider units are made for his build....and will be incorporated in this build also !! Thanx RB !!

When ya think about it....the colour combinations....are Huge !!
Just..." Slide'n'Glide into a cyclone of chromatic combinations "

CDBEAM
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Last edited by CDBEAM777; 11-28-2016 at 12:47 AM. Reason: Added clairification
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:29 AM #27
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Happy to help.

We can do one baseplate design if we got for example 5 orders.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:58 PM #28
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Mateusz,

If you made a PBS combined unit which has a total of six coaxially combined diodes, two of each color, how compact can you make it so that the entire unit can be put inside the end of a large flashlight? I like the Fenix TK75 flashlight because of the way additional sets of four series-parallel 18650 battery tubes can be added without increasing the voltage beyond 8.4 VDC peak, with charged batteries, yet each additional battery tube adding more capacity.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:36 PM #29
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Well...we have two of us wanting a dual RGB unit...but....not five !

So...I have a design that will work perfect when using a knife edge combining methods.

And...It sound's like....when knife edging....we will get a 5mm x 4mm geometry...at 10 M

That is great !!! One could not ask for more !!!!! and knife edging combining is simple enough to build !!!

Give me a few days...and I will post a drawing !!!

OH....and...Whatever host is choosen.....the power voltage must be 12 VDC !!
This 12 VDC is what the drivers demand.

Later CDBEAM
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:58 PM #30
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Hello,

module can be powered from 7,5V ince it has 5V regulator inside so two 3,6V batteries will do.

About four modules combined you can combine them now, but it is hard to optimize the size because of light path. Of course you can place all 4 modules close each other and operate with mirrors. So it will be the size of current module x4 + maybe 30mm each side? Hard to tell exactly. Problem is market demand, we can do the project but who will pay

This is why we created this one, small, compact and easy to combine since mounting screws ar from begind what saves a lot of space.
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:05 PM #31
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

I will pay for four modules if you can coaxially combine all four of them into a single output, or close to coaxial if knife edging can provide a nice beam.

Edit: I would prefer the output have beam expansion to 30mm or more for the single mode diodes, if that can be done while maintaining the beam alignments to make the output appear to be white, at least, to the eye while doing a night beam shot.
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Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Last edited by Alaskan; 11-28-2016 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 11-28-2016, 08:12 PM #32
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Default Re: RGB2X_ White Lightning

Oh what surprise!

I was going to answer to CDBEAM that if 2 prisms are made of same material the light speed stays same when passing from one into another, so no refraction should happen, but now I see that Mateusz the Manufacturer has come into the thread and resolved all questions because he has already done this for a customer!

Bravo, Mateusz! The specialist always has the answer!

But now please let me to ask my own question: are you planning to sell these micro setups without diodes and mirrors (like Lasertack is doing with its micro KE unit), so someone could try other combinations (405+450nm or 638+650nm) with diferent dichros what can be found elwhere?
Or maybe you already have done this for anothert customer, too???

Last edited by Light superglue; 11-28-2016 at 08:14 PM.
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