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Old 05-05-2013, 01:17 AM #49
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths



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Old 05-05-2013, 01:56 AM #50
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Interestingly enough, I knew nearly all those facts about mantis shrimps except the part about their amazingly perceptive eyes.

"Genghis Khan bathed in sherbert ice cream"

I sometimes wish I could have myself frozen, and thawed in a time when we have perfected genetic fabrication, and can grant ourselves (or at least our offspring) things like great perception. It makes me wonder what details we have missed which could be great epiphanies, if only we could perceive them. Likely we would have better scientific models, with better predictive capability.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:09 AM #51
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake
I sometimes wish I could have myself frozen, and thawed in a time when we have perfected genetic fabrication, and can grant ourselves (or at least our offspring) things like great perception. It makes me wonder what details we have missed which could be great epiphanies, if only we could perceive them. Likely we would have better scientific models, with better predictive capability.
Transhumanism anyone?


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Old 05-05-2013, 02:41 AM #52
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

While I was washing the dinner dishes (yes sometimes we have to do that also), I was actually thinking of this thread and of the graph that was posted on how the human eye senses the different wavelenghts.....
I got to the conclusion that we have it all wrong, I mean if we look at the chart we can see that our sensitivity to the blue is very low. So basically if we actually saw things the way they really are emmiting the color, than all the colors would be much much more blue.... basically we would have a blue domination compared to the spectrum we actually see....

I mean is like adjusting a picture in photoshop and adjusting the curves... if you pump up the blue all the colors shift....

What do you think?
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:45 AM #53
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Absolutely. If it can be done safely and is more or less available to all. As with any powerful technology, the possibility of misuse will be there. I believe in the long term the risks are worth it, fortune favors the brave. some prosthetics I think already qualify as transhumanism, and in a few other fields as well. Genetic evolution is too slow for us now, we have usurped it. Our environment no longer shapes us, we shape the environment (for better or worse). Soon, we will also shape ourselves, it is happening already.

I have not really gotten an answer to what I was asking initially, but this thread has become more interesting and popular than I could have anticipated, thanks all. Can never have too much knowledge IMO, I feed on the stuff
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:59 AM #54
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Many years ago, I would visit the Exploratorium in San Francisco Exploratorium: the museum of science, art and human perception I had friends who were "Explainers" kind of like docents in a museum. So I got to go after hours, play around with the exhibits and generally geek out. The red laser, I just fell in love with <3. I also got to hang in the shop and audit the "classes" that explainers would have to take to be able to explain exhibits. One of these classes was with a tesla coil guy. So awesome Another time while learning about light an interesting fact was learned. The human brain is an amazing thing. It alters our perception so that the world that we see, remains consistent. What do I mean?

go to a room with a florescent lamp and look at an apple. It's red. Now in that same room with the same red apple take a picture with out a florescent light filter on it. The hue is different from what you "saw". Why? Your brain "knows" that an apple should appear "red" so to preserve consistency it alters what you percieve. Your brain, a sneaky little stinker

If you want to read more, here is an article I googled, I didn't read it, but it goes more in depth concerning color perception and the brain at the bottom of the page. Looks legit
Perception: Color & Luminosity -- Part III

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Old 05-05-2013, 03:04 AM #55
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Quote:
Originally Posted by norbyx View Post
While I was washing the dinner dishes (yes sometimes we have to do that also), I was actually thinking of this thread and of the graph that was posted on how the human eye senses the different wavelenghts.....
I got to the conclusion that we have it all wrong, I mean if we look at the chart we can see that our sensitivity to the blue is very low. So basically if we actually saw things the way they really are emmiting the color, than all the colors would be much much more blue.... basically we would have a blue domination compared to the spectrum we actually see....

I mean is like adjusting a picture in photoshop and adjusting the curves... if you pump up the blue all the colors shift....

What do you think?
It's an interesting realization. But, I wouldn't say we "have it all wrong". All creatures with vision experience the world through sight by some "limited" mechanism for vision. The Mantis Shrimp would be an example of one creature with a severely sophisticated means of experiencing "more" of the world around them. In the mammal world, we're not that bad off, compared to our canine friends.

In short, we don't "have it wrong". We just have the human brand of color perception. This brand is better than some, and clearly lacking compared to others.

Which, interestingly is a powerful evolutionary biological argument against the "Intelligent Designer" "theory"; Notice the quotes around theory.
We cannot see all sorts of radiation that can easily kill us. We cannot walk up to a volcano and sense how lethal the heat is with our vision. We cannot see the x-rays and gamma rays that can kill us in all manners of ugliness. We cannot see lethal gases like radon or carbon monoxide. These are all examples of things that simpler organisms can see that we cannot.

Where is the intelligence in that design?
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:11 AM #56
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Well that is correct every animal sees the world in his own way, but there is also the universal way that is the way that things really are. I mean we might not see it but the wavelenghts are there. So if we put all the wavelenghts in a neutral position, just to be fair, than we should have a neutral point.
The lasers in this case are the exact wavelenght of a color, and that is determined by a spectrometer that measures the actual wavelenght, BUT since we are more sensitive to red and green than blue we see a laser greener that what it really is.... so in the case of a 520nm laser that we see like a light green, maybe in a "neutral" world it's light blue...
Get my point...
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:26 AM #57
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

I get what you're saying. But, there is no such balance or neutral position in our biome, or in any particular biome anywhere (that we're aware of).

Now, we are getting into the realm of philosophy. Maybe it's true that reality is only a result of our perception of it. While we have the capability of perceiving grandeur and beauty in our environment, the Mantis Shrimp with all of its sophistication cannot perceive grandeur nor beauty.

All the photons in the universe, reflecting off of all the surfaces of the universe completely lack beauty, awe, or inspiration until we are there to define it as such.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:28 AM #58
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

I was going to ask why "insert all-powerful creator archetype here" saw fit to equip the mantis shrimp with such sight, while giving me these poorly "designed" eyeballs, and the design is poor, for a "insert all-powerful creator archetype here", but didn't want to start a fight here, wrong section

The Eye of the Python - YouTube

As far as our brains being tricky little buggers, here's a story. It's even true.

The last time I peed the bed, at about age 7, I had already mostly stopped doing it. One night, in a last ditch effort to make me clean my sheets and bed my brain did this: I dreamed that I awoke needing to pee, got out of bed, walked to the bathroom, stood in front of the throne, and released. After several seconds I awoke, having peed the bed. My mind took me through the motions, but ultimately proved to be lazy. The next night, my brain tried this again, but I remembered, and shook myself awake to go for real. (this is not, in particular, why I am called shakenawake. part of it maybe) For a few months, I would pinch myself or slap my cheek to make sure I was really awake before I began peeing, when standing in front of the toilet. "Am I really here now, or am I about to pee myself"

I want to know who in my mind decided it was more work to get up and pee than to clean the stuff and deal with the embarressment, it sure was not me
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:37 AM #59
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
I was going to ask why "insert all-powerful creator archetype here" saw fit to equip the mantis shrimp with such sight, while giving me these poorly "designed" eyeballs, and the design is poor, for a "insert all-powerful creator archetype here", but didn't want to start a fight here, wrong section

The Eye of the Python - YouTube

As far as our brains being tricky little buggers, here's a story. It's even true.

The last time I peed the bed, at about age 7, I had already mostly stopped doing it. One night, in a last ditch effort to make me clean my sheets and bed my brain did this: I dreamed that I awoke needing to pee, got out of bed, walked to the bathroom, stood in front of the throne, and released. After several seconds I awoke, having peed the bed. My mind took me through the motions, but ultimately proved to be lazy. The next night, my brain tried this again, but I remembered, and shook myself awake to go for real. (this is not, in particular, why I am called shakenawake. part of it maybe) For a few months, I would pinch myself or slap my cheek to make sure I was really awake before I began peeing, when standing in front of the toilet. "Am I really here now, or am I about to pee myself"

I want to know who in my mind decided it was more work to get up and pee than to clean the stuff and deal with the embarressment, it sure was not me
:crac kup:
That is the way that most of us remember the last time we did that... I remember it the exact same way, as my wife.... Now the most interesting thing is that kids are more evolved now. Last time my 6 year old peed on the bed was just 2 weeks ago and we were at the beach in our RV, and he was sleeping in the same bed with his sister that is 4..... well he woke up and woke me up and told me his sister peed in the bed.... i go touch the sister and she is dry, while he isn't so his mind couldnt concive that he was the older son and that he was the one that actually did it, he was not sure of it for quite some time untill he realized that there is just one truth....
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:39 AM #60
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

That's so weird Shakenawake. I can recall "going through the motions" because I didn't want to get up... It happened later in life too (no peeing involved) just going through the morning routine. lol my brain
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:50 AM #61
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
Lol the Cephalopods and Squids got all the good stuff
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:20 AM #62
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Default Re: properties of wavelengths

Wow! Nobody saw that left turn coming!

This is one seriously interesting thread...
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