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Old 11-29-2015, 03:43 AM #1
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Default CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

Has anyone ever inquired about these in a handheld host? Such as how we got 561nm lasers in the Aurora host?

It'd be a hell of a shame if that was doable and no one ever thought to ask since they're not doing pointers anymore.


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Old 11-29-2015, 04:12 AM #2
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicxulub View Post
Has anyone ever inquired about these in a handheld host? Such as how we got 561nm lasers in the Aurora host?

It'd be a hell of a shame if that was doable and no one ever thought to ask since they're not doing pointers anymore.
I talked to ultimatekaiser about this in the past. It's possible. Practical? No. Efficient? No. Costly? Yes.

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Old 11-29-2015, 08:41 PM #3
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

I'd throw a couple hundred at it if it was still a possibility to do. Shame I missed my chance.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:53 AM #4
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

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I'd throw a couple hundred at it if it was still a possibility to do. Shame I missed my chance.
Add a zero you would be closer IIRC a forum member was quotes well over a grand.
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Old 11-30-2015, 06:21 AM #5
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

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Originally Posted by lazerman121 View Post
Add a zero you would be closer IIRC a forum member was quotes well over a grand.
I think it was bloompyle who asked a few years ago. That being said, 604nm/607nm still ain't cheap

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Old 11-30-2015, 07:08 AM #6
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

it must look amazing tho.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:09 PM #7
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

You could try to make an orange handheld, especially since there are members here who can machine hosts with large cavities. I'm 90% sure the crystal they're using is Pr:YLF.

IIRC, it's responsible for the 604nm and 607nm wavelengths, which is unfortunate for the amateur laser builder, as it throws the possibility of using stock large-band optics out the window.

However, it lacks the need for a SHG crystal, so it's much less complex than 532nm and vastly simpler than 589nm or 594nm (no phase matching, cooling to a tenth of a degree of optimal temperature, etc.). Basically, you just hit it with a 445nm diode and it spits out orange photons (it's not actually that simple, but it shouldn't be too hard either).

If you want to inquire about Pr:YLF then here are some sites:

Unioriental
Laser Components
Optical Systems

Though it looks like Unioriental may be buying from Laser Components or vice-versa.

I asked a company about Pr:YLF a while ago, but I got some weird reply that leads me to believe my inquiry never went through, otherwise I'd give you an approximation of the figure they're going to ask for.
You could also ask CNI directly if they'd be willing to sell you some. I doubt it, but they might be.

I know I'd personally love to get my hands on an orange laser.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:56 PM #8
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

Hmmm ... Wonder how well side pumped Pr:YLF would work. Everything I've seen is end pumped.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:25 PM #9
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

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Originally Posted by diachi View Post
Hmmm ... Wonder how well side pumped Pr:YLF would work. Everything I've seen is end pumped.
I'd assume that it'd work reasonably well, but even in cases where 2 pumps were used it was dual end-pumped rather than side pumped, so it must lower efficiency considerably or something.
Either way, I don't think side-pumping is a good option for handhelds.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:37 PM #10
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2Oxide View Post
I'd assume that it'd work reasonably well, but even in cases where 2 pumps were used it was dual end-pumped rather than side pumped, so it must lower efficiency considerably or something.
Either way, I don't think side-pumping is a good option for handhelds.

Ahh yes, I'm not thinking of handhelds, my bad, I'm thinking several watts of orange. I'm wondering if we could side pump it with maybe 4 or even 6 of those new 6W 445nm diodes. Even if you get 10% efficiency that's still ~2W of orange with 24W pump power. Not going to be fitting that in a pointer any time soon...

Reduced beam quality would probably be the biggest problem with side pumping. Assuming of course that it can be side pumped effectively at all!
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:50 PM #11
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

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Originally Posted by diachi View Post
Ahh yes, I'm not thinking of handhelds, my bad, I'm thinking several watts of orange. I'm wondering if we could side pump it with maybe 4 or even 6 of those new 6W 445nm diodes. Even if you get 10% efficiency that's still ~2W of orange with 24W pump power. Not going to be fitting that in a pointer any time soon...

Reduced beam quality would probably be the biggest problem with side pumping.
At that point you might as well just use an old-fashioned CW dye laser.

You're probably right about the beam quality, though if it's correctable IDK why you would sacrifice the potential for more power by end-pumping. 5 spaces for pumps is more than 2 after all. plus the optics would have to have an extra 445nm AR (and HR on the OC?) coating.
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Old 12-01-2015, 05:43 AM #12
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2Oxide View Post
At that point you might as well just use an old-fashioned CW dye laser.

You're probably right about the beam quality, though if it's correctable IDK why you would sacrifice the potential for more power by end-pumping. 5 spaces for pumps is more than 2 after all. plus the optics would have to have an extra 445nm AR (and HR on the OC?) coating.
If you are going for beam quality (Low divergence, small beam diameter, low M2 factor, nice Gaussian beam, polarized etc) and stability from the beginning then it makes sense to design the cavity around that goal rather than build something with bad beam quality and correct it afterwards. You don't necessarily need more power if that's your goal anyway - and there's no reason you can't get a lot of power out of an end pumped set up either. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9hliLJjg4


Ideally yes, in a single end pumped design I'd imagine the HR would be AR@445 and the OC would be HR@445 - although I don't see any reason why it wouldn't still work (Albeit less efficiently) without coatings for 445nm.

Hopefully someone that has experience with Pr:YLF can comment.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:33 PM #13
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

I'm not sure anyone here has experience with these. Just saying--

The lowest price I've seen was $2.4k for a lab unit -- two or three years ago (which, all in all, isn't awful for something in the orange spectrum).

Pr:PAYAC does 604nm, Pr:YLF does 607nm.

With these, you don't get just orange light. Much like other DPSS crystals, you get multiple transitions (emission spectrum). I did some research and found that Pr:YLF has emission spectra at the following lines, when pumped by blue (I believe is centered around 458nm? -- which is centered around 444nm.)
  • 522nm (notably has been frequency doubled to 261nm UV)
  • 545nm
  • 590nm
  • 607nm
  • 639nm
  • 697nm
  • 720nm

YES coatings AND angling the crystals the correct way affects the output.
YES it is possible to get multiple lines lasing simultaneously.

I haven't found much info on the Pr:PAYAC crystals last I did some research.

___

Basically, you can think of this crystal as DPSS that skips a second set of optics that double the frequency (BiBO / BBO / KTP / etc)
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Last edited by ZRaffleticket; 12-01-2015 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Keeping facts straight
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:28 PM #14
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZRaffleticket View Post
I'm not sure anyone here has experience with these. Just saying--

The lowest price I've seen was $2.4k for a lab unit -- two or three years ago (which, all in all, isn't awful for something in the orange spectrum).

Pr:PAYAC does 604nm, Pr:YLF does 607nm.

With these, you don't get just orange light. Much like other DPSS crystals, you get multiple transitions (emission spectrum). I did some research and found that Pr:YLF has emission spectra at the following lines, when pumped by blue (I believe is centered around 458nm? That number just comes to mind, not saying as fact)
  • 522nm (notably has been frequency doubled to 261nm UV)
  • 545nm
  • 590nm
  • 607nm
  • 639nm
  • 697nm
  • 720nm

YES coatings AND angling the crystals the correct way affects the output.
YES it is possible to get multiple lines lasing simultaneously.

I haven't found much info on the Pr:PAYAC crystals last I did some research.

___

Basically, you can think of this crystal as DPSS that skips a second set of optics that double the frequency (Nd:YAG / BBO / KTP / etc)

I imagine Steve Roberts (LSRFAQ) would have some experience, or at least knowledge, when it comes to Pr:YLF - given his line of work and years of experience.

Absorption peak for Pr:YLF is ~444nm as far as I've seen, pumping at 445 would work just fine. AR coatings for the pump wavelength aren't a necessity, but they would improve efficiency. Obviously you'd need the correct HR/PR/AR coatings for whichever wavelength you intend to have the thing lase at depending on your optics setup.

Not sure why you mentioned Nd:YAG there ... that isn't something that'd be used for doubling. Anyway, yes, Pr:YLF is pretty much the same as Nd:YAG/Nd:YVO4 in how it operates - no whacky non-linear processes going on here.

I can't see any reason why side pumping it wouldn't work - as long as you can get a suitably sized crystal. That said, I know nothing about the thermal properties of Pr:YLF - or any other properties for that matter. There could be limits (Low limits relative to say Nd:YVO4 or Nd:YAG) as to how hard it can be pumped.
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Last edited by diachi; 12-01-2015 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:43 PM #15
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

Thanks for the comments guys! This thread has turned into far more than I have hoped and was a great read.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:19 PM #16
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Default Re: CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...

I'm not sure why I said Nd:YAG either, removing. It's been a long day
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