Wicked Laser Arctic Spyder III

crabapple said:

I have helped a fellow man out and that's all that matters to me and if he wants the laser back when things are better then so be it. I'm very fortunate to have the kind of job that allows me to have the things I want in life and most important, helping people.

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Are you really this soft??? No one knows him, yet you take his word as stone?

You really are a fish.

Tech_Junkie said:

Who are you, his butt buddy? Why not get a room, and you guys can play laser tag together. :crackup:

The original price was $350, which was what I was talking about. And I was commenting in this thread waaaay before you chimed in crab, so it is my business. I work hard, along with others, to keep people from getting ripped off here. If it was a scam, and you didnt buy it, you'd be thanking me right now. And thats a fact. :beer:

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crabapple is as free as anyone else to comment on here. Especially since he actually bought the laser.

Last I checked there weren't any forum rules that you're a LASER GOD and ALL MUST BOW DOWN TO THE INFALLIBLE EXPERTISE OF THE GREAT AND MIGHTY TJ TROLL.

There is a fine line in being protective, and what you're doing. Of course you're free to be what you want to be, but so is everyone else. You seem to have forgotten that last part.

Also what's with all the lube references, feeling lonely are we?

Of course I'll defer to your experience with lube:

Tech_Junkie said:

For me I like lube before I get f*cked.

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T_J and Dave and the others are helping keep watch over this forum. If you want to come in and buy something for what ever Price then yeah thats your Prerogative. And Your Right. But Why would you be so offended that people are trying to keep a watch over the sales and helping people understand whats a good sale and a possibly bad or Even then again a very expensive sale. You Should be happy people care enough to spend there free time to help others. There just trying to Help Out.



And @InfinitusEquitas Reading over the Whole Thread I did get the impression you were basically saying he was "Trustworthy". Your Right You Never Said those "Exact" Words but everything you said did give me that impression long before it was brought up by someone else that you were fully endorsing this sale. You have the right to do that but just wanted you to know that I got that Same impression as well that you were stamping this sale as OK and a Good Deal.

Krogith said:

T_J and Dave and the others are helping keep watch over this forum. If you want to come in and buy something for what ever Price then yeah thats your Prerogative. And Your Right. But Why would you be so offended that people are trying to keep a watch over the sales and helping people understand whats a good sale and a possibly bad or Even then again a very expensive sale. You Should be happy people care enough to spend there free time to help others. There just trying to Help Out.



And @InfinitusEquitas Reading over the Whole Thread I did get the impression you were basically saying he was "Trustworthy". Your Right You Never Said those "Exact" Words but everything you said did give me that impression long before it was brought up by someone else that you were fully endorsing this sale. You have the right to do that but just wanted you to know that I got that Same impression as well that you were stamping this sale as OK and a Good Deal.

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I do appreciate the help of others that have been around lasers longer than i have and know about their cost and such. The way T_J went about the post he posted was all wrong at least to me it was.

For all that has posted to this and have read or will read.......THIS WAS MORE ABOUT ME HELPING SOMEONE OUT THAT I FELT WAS BEING HONEST IN THE PM'S WE EXCHANGED. I COULD REALLY CARE LESS ABOUT THE LASER IT JUST HAPPENED TO BE THE ONE MATERIAL PUT UP FOR SALE.

@Krogith

I very much appreciate what Dave does for the forum. If TJ tries to serve a similar function that's great, but they way he goes about it, bugs me a great deal. Last I checked, I don't go around Neg Repping EVERYONE over every disagreement, and neither do you.

If there are concerns or disagreements I try to raise them in a civil manner, and I'm fine with agreeing to disagree as well. All without references to sexuality and lube, and undue sarcasm. (With that last post I just couldn't resist.)

What I was trying to endorse, is that ynotbehappy did respond to all questions asked of him, and he did do EVERYTHING he was asked to do. Quite a bit more actually. Personally if I got the kind of welcome he did, I wouldn't have stuck around.

Is that really the message LPF wants to send to any new person? - If you're a newbie and you don't do EVERYTHING right and price your laser incorrectly, than you're a scammer and must be denounced as quickly as possible?

I don't think it's out of the bounds of possibility that a person comes to LPF first to sell a laser. So to me it just felt like he as getting a very hostile, one sided response, and I wrote what a felt, as well as the reasons for it. I know there is chance this whole thing goes south, but all actions up to right now, at least to me, indicate that it is a good sale.

So I'll commit now... and if I'm wrong so be it, at least I'm willing to take a chance and not hide behind a wall of paranoia: I think based on his actions, and his responses to date YnotBeHappy is trustworthy.

I Think honestly it comes from the fact that we do on a almost Daily basis getting scammers trying to pull something. And so a Lot of the Older members have Scars from it and are more callous towards people and are that much more suspicious.

You have to take T_J for T_J Honestly just ignore the "Crude" Things he says like I do. I don't Enjoy his homo Humor (He does it A Lot makes you :thinking but Still find other things he says funny

Krogith said:

I don't Enjoy his homo Humor (He does it A Lot makes you :thinking but Still find other things he says funny

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I have gay friends, and are quite comfortable with my hetro sexuality. I had a hate thing in the beginning of my life, but after dating 20 odd bi-sexual girls you learn to accept people for who they are. I know it makes some people uncomfortable, so I use the homo humor a lot, along with the rest of my ball busting material. I love women too much to be gay. If I was gay I wouldn't be wasting time sitting here talking to you clowns, LOL. With my sex drive I'd be down at the park everyday. :crackup:

@Krogith - Agreed with the first part, but prior experience alone does not warrant judgement in the absence of proof.

Disagree with most of the second part. (Not the "He does it A Lot makes you :thinking:" part.) I don't find most of what he says funny, but maybe that's because he and I don't get along. As Dave pointed out to me, it's a personality thing.

InfinitusEquitas said:

@Krogith - Agreed with the first part, but prior experience alone does not warrant judgement in the absence of proof.

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I have never been ripped off on the internet before. I have seen some very good people get scammed because they were trusting. Even by people who have been here a while. This is the internet. You cannot take anything on face value because there are no faces on the internet. People can say anything. Talk is cheap in life, on the internet its free. IMO you cant trust anyone new, and extreme caution must be given on all buys. It only makes sense. You accuse me of make assumptions. Well you are making assumptions too. None of you know this guy personally yet you add him as a friend? To me this is insane, and not very smart. Trust has to be earned, not freely given. Sorry, but its the way the internet is.

Tech_Junkie said:

I have never been ripped off on the internet before. I have seen some very good people get scammed because they were trusting. Even by people who have been here a while. This is the internet. You cannot take anything on face value because there are no faces on the internet. People can say anything. Talk is cheap in life, on the internet its free. IMO you cant trust anyone new, and extreme caution must be given on all buys. It only makes sense. You accuse me of make assumptions. Well you are making assumptions too. None of you know this guy personally yet you add him as a friend? To me this is insane, and not very smart. Trust has to be earned, not freely given. Sorry, but its the way the internet is.

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I've been burned quite a few times actually. More often in person and far less online.

I try to be optimistically cautious, and sometimes that means I do get hurt. Personally I'm very much OK with that because along the way I've had some amazing experiences that I never would have had otherwise.

If you read through the thread, I said time and again "use a middleman", and that brings the risk down to only what $15, $20? Not much of a risk at all IMO. I'm also as cautious as possible, but being cautious is different from never taking a risk.

As far as adding him as a friend, you said it yourself, this is the internet. A true friend does have to earn my trust in real life. For the purposes of this forum though - why not? To me he seems like a nice guy, who's in a bind. He came on here to sell a laser to get a little money. Price was lowered, pictures, were posted, replies were made... btw I think his replies are a hell of a lot more civil than most of yours. He requested my friendship, and while he hasn't done anything for me, well, that's not really what friends are for is it? Hopefully he'll back me up at some point, on some subject, but if he doesn't what exactly did I lose? In terms of what I gained... well, at least the goodwill of another person.

The whole gun in picture thing, while there are three other sales involving guns and arctics - weird yes, but no tie to what is happening here. Different pictures, jut the same overproduced, crappy laser.

IMO you cant trust anyone new, and extreme caution must be given on all buys. It only makes sense.

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That's a very pragmatic approach, and as you indicate you've never been ripped off. The question to ask yourself here though, is how many opportunities did you miss out on because of this?

How is someone new supposed to gain trust, if no one is willing to offer any?

We're both making assumptions here. The thing is, my assumptions are based on what he actually posted here, not on what's posted elsewhere.

We have the same goals here but opposing viewpoints and approaches. This is fine, it's your right, just don't be surprised if others don't always agree with you.

LOL, a lot of people dont agree with me, and thats fine. I only expect people to take what they can use in my opinion. I also dont repeat myself, which you do a lot. You dont need to try so hard.

My friends listed are people I trust. I've denied quite a few people because I dont know them. I've also kicked off a few because they were not the person I thought they were. If this deal goes South, for whatever reason, you're going to look like a jackass.

Unfortunately repetition is often the only way to get a point across, that last sentence, I said almost the same exact thing to you in a PM... and yet here we are:banghead:

As far as looking like a jackass, I stand by what I said. Which was to use a middleman.

I think you put too much stock in online friendships... I really don't care all that much about that aspect of it, but all of the people who are listed as my friends currently, are there because I want them to be there, because in something I agree with them.

If the deal turns bad, I really don't care how it makes me look, I still won't sleep because of insomnia

Besides, you go around looking like a jack@$$ all the time:na:

Yeah, but I try to look like a jackass.

I put stock in trust. Lets face it, most of the membership are pen pals.

Tech_Junkie said:

Yeah, but I try to look like a jackass.

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:crackup::crackup::crackup: I NEVER in a million years would have guessed :sarcasm: Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Tech_Junkie said:

I put stock in trust. Lets face it, most of the membership are pen pals.

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Trust and relationships take time to build. You had a while, so give people time and see what happens.

Attempting to alter another person's personality via online posts is like tying to sweep marbles uphill

Attempting to be "nice" to everyone makes for a VERY fertile field for scammers and con men. We have seen this REPEATEDLY in the forum. We have >17K members. We get 10 new members almost every day. That is a lot of potential targets for a scammer or con man. We work very hard here to keep them at bay. They work VERY hard to gain access

The forum is NOT hurting for members. We don't "need" any one member (including me). EVERY cultural setting has an entry procedure (test). This is part of ours.

Sometimes you have to trust the experienced members to have knowledge that you do not. If we had to "prove" everything to every member that had doubts, that is all we would have time to talk about.

If ynotbehappy survives and thrives in the forum, good.

If he doesn't, so what?

That is NOT hostility or even being "mean." That is simply pragmatics

Peace,
dave

He's free to his personality, I'm free to disagree. I'm not gonna argue the merits here anymore since I think it is pointless until this deal either goes through or falls through.

Also there is a big difference between being nice and being civil. The way this thread read to me was:
TJ: "You're an fisherman trying to lure me out of my money!!!, NO ONE BUY HERE!!! THIS STINKS."
Meanwhile the Picture DJNY asked for is posted, price is dropped, and while not overly nice, not exactly an acidic response is made, then this:
TJ:"Ah, I see you are a member here using a different name to sell his laser.

This whole sale is fishy, dont buy this laser."

I don't know about anyone else but to me that reads like an accusation about creating fake accounts - I mean already a member using a different name to sell a laser... yup that's calling it a scam.

After that there is a helpful chime in from Pilgor: "busted!!!" - for what exactly I'm at a loss. Has somekind of solid proof been offered? No of course not, but why not just jump on the accusation band wagon.

So here is just the first page of the thread:
1. Accusation that the price is inflated - at the time true, but not an extreme inflation. Asking $350 for a package that would currently cost $374 shipped, where shipping could take months.
2. Calling the sale fishy, implying it's a scam.
3. Other thoughtful member jumps in to offer his $0.02 with the genius "busted!!!" comment.
4. A member I actually respect, comes on says, well you know what, you whine, just listen to the others.

Seems like a hard test to pass.

Let's just say if I went to join debate club and was beaten with gavels while being called a lying @$$hole, I wouldn't join that club, because to me it would seem that the members already there are @$$holes and not worth my time.

I know that's an extreme analogy - there are many, many great members here I like and respect, but I'm really just trying to get the point across.

The "test" here is not needed if a very basic procedure is followed and a little extra money is spent. How is that not being pragmatic? Anyone who doesn't do that, well, it's a gamble, but paypal does offer a little protection as well, and the buyer either ends up with what he ordered, or has no one else to blame.

I got a little screwed on my first laser here, - I didn't know the guy, took a risk, and the laser isn't quite up to spec. I'm not whining about, since I didn't use a middle man, and most people wouldn't either.

All that happened here as I see it, is a guy came wanting to sell a laser, and had to go though an online tourquemada style inquisition to do it.

I'd like to ask that we end this discussion for now until we hear back from crabapple to see how things turn out.