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Old 01-07-2009, 10:15 PM #1
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Default What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Please

I know the legality of owning a laser and the million of things you can't do, but I was wondering whether I need a license or not, I'm only interested in selling lasers locally. The type of lasers I will be selling are 300mw 650nm red lasers and 150mw 405nm Blu-ray lasers. As precautions I will be shipping the lasers set at a lower power than maximum, and I will also have a long list of how the seller is not responsible if the buyer does something stupid. Please help, I'm not looking to put anyone out of business or shake the nest, I would just like some kind advice. Thanks for reading.



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Old 01-07-2009, 10:22 PM #2
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmc1027
I know the legality of owning a laser and the million of things you can't do, but I was wondering whether I need a license or not, I'm only interested in selling lasers locally. *The type of lasers I will be selling are 300mw 650nm red lasers and 150mw 405nm Blu-ray lasers. As precautions I will be shipping the lasers set at a lower power than maximum, and I will also have a long list of how the seller is not responsible if the buyer does something stupid. Please help, I'm not looking to put anyone out of business or shake the nest, I would just like some kind advice. Thanks for reading.

You need to look up the FDA regulations concerning the sale of lasers in the US.

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Old 01-07-2009, 10:25 PM #3
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

thanks so much
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:49 PM #4
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

Pretty much all of the lasers sold on here are sold illegally...
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:58 AM #5
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

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Originally Posted by styropyro
Pretty much all of the lasers sold on here are sold illegally...
Well that's good to know. ;D
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:02 AM #6
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

Quote:
Originally Posted by styropyro
Pretty much all of the lasers sold on here are sold illegally...
Not if you're selling to Canada.... :
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:53 AM #7
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

Quote:
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[quote author=styropyro link=1231370115/0#3 date=1231375777]Pretty much all of the lasers sold on here are sold illegally...
Not if you're selling to Canada.... :[/quote]
True...true... ;D

Basically if you are in the US or Europe any handheld that doesn't comply with FDA regulations is illegal to sell. Nearly all homemade handhelds like flashlights, pens, etc. fall under that category. Labbys and bare modules are fine to sell though.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:11 AM #8
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

Is it really illegal to sell? I thought buyers just assumed all consequences of their actions, and should know that they are required by law to have a permit when using a high powered laser in public.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:40 AM #9
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

it is the manufacturer's responsibility to file for FDA lisencing or whatnot. Since most of the lasers produced by hobbiests do not have the 5 required safety features for FDA requirements, we can't even file. So, they are illegal to sell. Not to own though.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:54 AM #10
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

I wonder what the FDA's position would be on the sale of complete laser kits. In other words, if I sell a complete kit full of parts that someone who is not an enthusiast or professional could easily assemble into the final laser product, does the FDA consider that the same thing as selling the completed laser from the standpoint of requiring the 5 safety features? To take that a little further, what if the kit could only be assembled by someone with a certain level of expertise? Or was missing a crucial component that would have to be sourced elsewhere?

Just food for thought...

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:23 AM #11
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

I am very up to date with FDA laws, and according to them, the most illegal thing to do is import them. However, various laws on publics displays of lasers, whether at schools, parks, etc, often vary locally. For the most part, laser parts are perfectly legal. its when you get to sending whole lasers that they become in the gray areas. I myself am a public servant, as I work for my city and local government. I have openly shown a few city co-workers my laser(a blu-ray) and have never been reprimanded or feed. As i feel it, if you are sensible, and know the sensibility of your customers, then you should be okay. For example, I would recommend that you MAKE customers learn some rudimentary things about lasers, just for other's sakes.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:53 AM #12
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

This goes in the safety and legal issues section!!! lol just sayin
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:37 PM #13
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

wow thanks for all the replies! lol and I did think that they were illegal! lol This is just hilarious to me personally, cause it's like at the sign up page it's like nothing illegal!! No illegal vids, selling blah blah i'm like suuuurrrreee. Thanks so much guys! 8-) ;D
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:01 PM #14
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

After showing off some blu-ray pointers to my friends, I'm finally going to start selling some lasers locally to friends and such. *My policy: I sell it to you set at <5mW, so it is perfectly legal, and it is built such that it is not trivial to change that power output. *Of course the power is changable when using a PHR for a blu-ray laser, and can go much higher than 5mW, but in my assembled lasers it would not be easy for just anyone to do with no teaching or experience; and would require disassembly, maybe some soldering, etc. *If the person I sell it to wishes to change that power output, I can provide information on how the laser works and direct them to this site where they can learn all about modifiying their own laser if they so choose. *And of course, legal disclaimer language and such, as well.

That's my personal philosophy, at least. *Most of the people who want them here just want them for presentations anyway, so it's not a big deal to them.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:54 PM #15
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

Here's the low down from a company that resells and manufactures laser systems.

All your lasers must be registered with the FDA! No exceptions. If you resell lasers the lasers must be registered with the FDA or have an accession number for import into the U.S. It doesn't cost anything other than time to register your systems. If you sell class IIIa systems they don't need to have any safety features. If you sell 3b or 4 you must have safety systems implemented per FDA.

If you build and sell a laser pointer you must meet FDA regulations:

21 CFR 1040.11(b) and 1040.11(c), limit surveying, leveling, and alignment, and demonstration laser products to Class IIIa.

Laser pointers are hand-held lasers that are promoted for pointing out objects or locations. Such laser products can meet one of two definitions for laser products. The first is for “surveying, leveling, and alignment laser products” as defined by Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Section 1040.10(b)(39):

* *“Surveying, leveling, or alignment laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended or promoted for one or more of the following uses:

* *(i) Determining and delineating the form, extent, or position of a point, body, or area by taking angular measurement.

* *(ii) Positioning or adjusting parts in proper relation to one another.

* *(iii) Defining a plane, level, elevation, or straight line.”

Hand-held lasers promoted for entertainment purposes or amusement also meet the second definition, that of “demonstration laser products” as defined by 21 CFR 1040.10(b)(13):

* *“Demonstration laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended, or promoted for purposes of demonstration, entertainment, advertising display, or artistic composition.”

If a laser product is promoted for pointing purposes, either of these definitions can apply.


It doesn't matter if you build lasers in your basement. If you construct lasers with the intent to distribute them you are a manufacturer and must meet manufacturer requirements. There seems to be an attitude that people are above the law or they are just small potatoes that the FDA will overlook. This is the wrong attitude. The FDA will mess you up if you pop up on their radar. Five years in jail is no fun. Neither is $250,000 in fines. Of course that's the maximum penalty. The minimum they will impose for non-registered laser sales is the immediate recall and destruction of all lasers systems sold and the refunding of all customer money.

You must follow the guidance of TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SUBCHAPTER J--RADIOLOGICAL HEALTH PART 1002 -- RECORDS AND REPORTS.

Kits are no exception. If your product emits radiation in its final form it falls under FDA regulation.

Finally, if you build lasers for your own personal enjoyment or amusement they do not fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Use of the laser system may fall under the laws of your state or local constabulary.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:54 PM #16
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Default Re: What is the legality of SELLING lasers?? Pleas

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyChimp
Here's the low down from a company that resells and manufactures laser systems.

All your lasers must be registered with the FDA! No exceptions. If you resell lasers the lasers must be registered with the FDA or have an accession number for import into the U.S. It doesn't cost anything other than time to register your systems. If you sell class IIIa systems they don't need to have any safety features. If you sell 3b or 4 you must have safety systems implemented per FDA.

If you build and sell a laser pointer you must meet FDA regulations:

21 CFR 1040.11(b) and 1040.11(c), limit surveying, leveling, and alignment, and demonstration laser products to Class IIIa.

Laser pointers are hand-held lasers that are promoted for pointing out objects or locations. Such laser products can meet one of two definitions for laser products. The first is for “surveying, leveling, and alignment laser products” as defined by Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Section 1040.10(b)(39):

* *“Surveying, leveling, or alignment laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended or promoted for one or more of the following uses:

* *(i) Determining and delineating the form, extent, or position of a point, body, or area by taking angular measurement.

* *(ii) Positioning or adjusting parts in proper relation to one another.

* *(iii) Defining a plane, level, elevation, or straight line.”

Hand-held lasers promoted for entertainment purposes or amusement also meet the second definition, that of “demonstration laser products” as defined by 21 CFR 1040.10(b)(13):

* *“Demonstration laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended, or promoted for purposes of demonstration, entertainment, advertising display, or artistic composition.”

If a laser product is promoted for pointing purposes, either of these definitions can apply.


It doesn't matter if you build lasers in your basement. If you construct lasers with the intent to distribute them you are a manufacturer and must meet manufacturer requirements. There seems to be an attitude that people are above the law or they are just small potatoes that the FDA will overlook. This is the wrong attitude. The FDA will mess you up if you pop up on their radar. Five years in jail is no fun. Neither is $250,000 in fines. Of course that's the maximum penalty. The minimum they will impose for non-registered laser sales is the immediate recall and destruction of all lasers systems sold and the refunding of all customer money.

You must follow the guidance of TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SUBCHAPTER J--RADIOLOGICAL HEALTH PART 1002 -- RECORDS AND REPORTS.

Kits are no exception. If your product emits radiation in its final form it falls under FDA regulation.

Finally, if you build lasers for your own personal enjoyment or amusement they do not fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA. Use of the laser system may fall under the laws of your state or local constabulary.
That really clears things up for me. I was wondering about laws of building lasers.


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