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Old 03-29-2012, 02:55 AM #81
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Your link goes to a **** site now.
Nice!


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Old 03-29-2012, 03:16 AM #82
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeGT View Post
Your link goes to a **** site now.
Nice!
Oh no, I just put a bunch of xxxx's I'll go fix it!!!!
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:31 AM #83
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Now that this thread is done, can I mention that I'm really impressed at how we all had a big huge disagreement, but nobody started tossing around +/- reps?

That's kind of cool.

Or at the very least, it's kind of rare.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:32 AM #84
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Well, actually I gave you a + rep for that comment about "I'm a Canadian so I'd do it like this..." Does that ruin it?
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:49 AM #85
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post
I'm going to step back from this. Enough has been said. My stance is the same as it has been for about 40 posts back. I will not sell this host. I will try to never sell another member's host if possible, but if I accidentally do - oh well.

Best wishes. Feel free to crucify me for something that I haven't even done if you like.



Hmm. I see you play favors though.
I will leave it at that.

We have seen your true colors Show in this thread. This is the same line i said to you the last time you attacked me.!

You have gone out of your way 2 times to give me a Hard time at this point of even giving me Hell on this one.

WHY ME. Iam Nothing but nice to everyone one on this forum. Laugh all you want at that the joke is on you.

If I had the power to make people post there feedback i would.

I tried giving you advice on how to fit in yet you think i made this whole thing up and pointed the finger at me that its me that feels this way and the other sellers dint because you only listened to what you wanted to.. Then when it blew up in your face you want out. Typical


Once you realize that most of your stuff is Full of crap and Lies and cannot be Backed up You want done.

You have totally done it to yourself on this one. You deserved Every bit of the aftermath of what people look at you as after this.

I have never been treated like this before from another member. Never . You are the worst as it comes and i hope others see this. Most have from the Pms that i have gotten.

I said this to you before but i mean it now:

Stay away from me. Far away from me. As the second I even see you Mention anything to do with me I Will Report you. I want nothing to do with such a person and hope that member see this too and want nothing to do with you. Your attempt in this should not be UN punished.

You have tried to attempt to destroy my Reputation which you could not do. Say it all you want that you where not but you are and its very clear to me and others. Why take it this Far if not. It appears you still held a Grudge even after I contact you to start fresh to be the bigger person even though you continued to trash my sale thread and Had another member jump in and tell you to stop. Remember I was the one that still contacted you after this. All because you got Neg repped and for a valid reason by me.




TO those sellers that stuck up for me thank You. TO those members that stuck up for me thank You. Its Greatly Appreciated.

IT so much appreciated you will see something pop up on the open forum as a Gift to show my apparition for this to you all in this thread once my chest gets better. I promise..

I think we need to stick together.


Iam done here. Iam UN subscribing and will not post back in this thread.

Thank You all for the support.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:31 AM #86
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post
I'm going to step back from this. Enough has been said. My stance is the same as it has been for about 40 posts back. I will not sell this host. I will try to never sell another member's host if possible, but if I accidentally do - oh well.

Best wishes. Feel free to crucify me for something that I haven't even done if you like.
Sounds good....

BTW... Just a friendly Heads Up....
I'm really getting fed up of your continual Double and
Triple Post on the Forum...
That is considered bad Forum etiquette...

There is an [Edit] button on the bottom of your posts
that allows you to easily combine posts that are made
within minutes...


Jerry
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:05 PM #87
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

holy fuck!

i ask this with no sarcasm intended:
i just sold a 445 in a g4 host i bought from moh, should i have asked him for permission before i sold it?

i kinda don't think it was needed, but....
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:32 PM #88
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

This whole thread was a personal stab at Angelos disguised as a general question. Dont think for one second its a coincidence that the host he chose was the same Angelos used. I broke up their last bickering, and it was all Tom. Anyone who knows Angelos knows he's a stand up, honest guy, who would help anyone who needed it. Ever see him freak out this bad on anyone before? Ever see him freak out??? No. There are reasons obviously. He wouldnt waste his time if he didnt have ongoing issues with Tom. And Tom is obviously getting some kind of kick out of it. Because if he didnt, there would be no more issues. After the last bickering Angelos told him to leave him alone. And this thread proves Tom has no intention of leaving him alone. If it continues I see a ban in the future.

And Tome knows how to edit posts. He's been running for the 1K mark for the past few weeks for obvious reasons.

Ex: Cheap Safety Glasses - TESTED
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:37 PM #89
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech_Junkie View Post
This whole thread was a personal stab at Angelos disguised as a general question. Dont think for one second its a coincidence that the host he chose was the same Angelos used. I broke up their last bickering, and it was all Tom. Anyone who knows Angelos knows he's a stand up, honest guy, who would help anyone who needed it. Ever see him freak out this bad on anyone before? Ever see him freak out??? No. There are reasons obviously. He wouldnt waste his time if he didnt have ongoing issues with Tom. And Tom is obviously getting some kind of kick out of it. Because if he didnt, there would be no more issues. After the last bickering Angelos told him to leave him alone. And this thread proves Tom has no intention of leaving him alone. If it continues I see a ban in the future.

And Tome knows how to edit posts. He's been running for the 1K mark for the past few weeks for obvious reasons.

Ex: Cheap Safety Glasses - TESTED
No it wasn't TJ. I ordered some hosts that turned out to be the same hosts that another builder here was offering for sale. In fact, if you can be bothered to actually read the posts, you will see the whole thing started in a totally different thread...

Presenting "The Copperhead" - a "Bite"-Sized Build

If your reading comprehension is high enough, you can go back to the original post and see that is all I asked - what are the rules?

Other people figured out what builder I was talking about and it became a mess.

At NO POINT (as best I can recall, feel free to read all 89 posts and try to find a slip-up) did I PERSONALLY ATTACK or INSULT anyone in the discussion. I also did not call anyone a liar other than pointing out some inconsistencies - but I did not ever call anyone names or call them a liar. This was a discussion of IDEAS and OPINIONS, not people. At least not on my end...

You did not break up our last bickering, but it is funny that you think you did. We worked out our first disagreement via PM. You had nothing to do with it. Now it seems like you want to cause more drama - This entire thread was dying on its own until you had to sling mud at me un-necessarily, ignorantly and incorrectly.

It appears that you are just picking and choosing your friends rather than looking at the issues. And you are calling me a liar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheech226 View Post

i ask this with no sarcasm intended:
i just sold a 445 in a g4 host i bought from moh, should i have asked him for permission before i sold it?

i kinda don't think it was needed, but....
I don't believe you have to ask for permission period. However, if you BUY a host from someone, I believe it is assumed that you may sell that build. This thread was trying to determine if there was "ownership" of hosts that could be bought from a flashlight store on the internet. In other words, if someone finds a cool host and builds a laser from it, do they "own" that host or could someone else buy the same host and build their own laser in it and sell it.

It appears that it is a much-disputed issue.
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450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

Laser Safety and Eye Injury

Last edited by tsteele93; 04-02-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:00 PM #90
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post

I don't believe you have to ask for permission period. However, if you BUY a host from someone, I believe it is assumed that you may sell that build. This thread was trying to determine if there was "ownership" of hosts that could be bought from a flashlight store on the internet. In other words, if someone finds a cool host and builds a laser from it, do they "own" that host or could someone else buy the same host and build their own laser in it and sell it.

It appears that it is a much-disputed issue.
From what you posted in a previous Post I understood that
you had decided what to do and it was no longer an issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post
I'm going to step back from this. Enough has been said. My stance is the same as it has been for about 40 posts back. I will not sell this host. I will try to never sell another member's host if possible, but if I accidentally do - oh well.

Best wishes. Feel free to crucify me for something that I haven't even done if you like.

Jerry
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:27 PM #91
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

very touchy subject, of course i am not a seller...but my understanding was:

anything in the general host ie. C6 or many others should be fair game, with a standard host shell, regular heat sink, etc. But if someone does something very unique, out of the box work on them should definitely come under "signature" and of course any custom lath or cnc build from scratch should come under signature as well.

I am still very new to all this...so my views are very simple and i dont have full grasp of all the unwritten rules / behind the scene details. Please forgive my ignorance.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:16 PM #92
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
From what you posted in a previous Post I understood that
you had decided what to do and it was no longer an issue...

Jerry
Where TJ posts, I know who will be following up right behind him.

What I BELIEVE and what I said I would do are two different things.

I BELIEVE that as long as you do not COPY someone's build page/post then you should be able to build and sell a laser in ANY commercially available flashlight out there.

On the other hand, if you go searching the forum and purposefully copy someone's build and heat sink, etc then I BELIEVE that is wrong.

But let's be honest, if you are buying a flashlight host, driver and using a module/diode - then for most of us, the only thing that is left is the heat sink. It isn't like putting together a laser is rocket surgery. (well, that may not have been the best analogy here.)

I wouldn't have thought the high-end builders on the forum would consider that as competition with their custom drivers and binned diodes and testing and what-not.

However, in order to attempt to soothe some egos and drop a fight, I agreed that I will not sell the two fat black hosts that I have as lasers on this forum because another member has claimed these flashlights are one of their "signature hosts" and as I have said all along, the stainless build that this member says is also one of their "signature hosts" (and which is CLEARLY not a copy - just look at the design) was never intended to be for sale anyway.

I also was asked to remove a link to the site where the host could be purchased because it was suggested to me by another member in PM that it might make the offended member less upset, so I did remove the link. It did not seem to help though!

The only reason I even knew of that site was that it was posted in a different thread in regards to a completely different host. Someone asked about a host and that builder cheerfully offered up the link to the host, leading me to believe that he considered it fair game to build in that host.

I searched the flashlight section of that site and the fat, black, finned flashlight and the stainless steel finned flashlight were two that were offered as DIY flashlights without drivers or LEDS. That is why, and the only reason why, that I happened to stumble across the same hosts as the other builder who was upset about it. If someone wants to call me a liar, I don't know what more I can do to offer details that would show otherwise. But I think calling someone a liar when they do not have all the facts is very poor judgement. I see that some people here get most of their exercise jumping to conclusions though.

It isn't even a strange coincidence if everyone involved were to share everything, but I'm not going to call anyone out. Those are the facts, there are no lies there. It is what happened and it CAN be verified by some people here.

As I said before TJ brought this up again, going forward, I will try not to build in another person's "signature hosts" but if I buy a host and it so happens that after I build a laser in it, someone cries, "that is one of my signature hosts," oh well.

I think that is consistent with what I said before. No?
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:58 PM #93
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

So did you drop the fight or what?

At this point you're a tad inconsistent and also drama trolling in well written form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post
However, in order to attempt to soothe some egos and drop a fight....

.... I see that some people here get most of their exercise jumping to conclusions though.

I think that is consistent with what I said before. No?
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:12 PM #94
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
So did you drop the fight or what?
If you look back, I did not continue to argue with the person who was upset and did not reply to that person's last post. I was content to let the drama die, however I was not going to sit back and let TJ come back from his suspension and call me a liar without defending myself.

Quote:

At this point you're a tad inconsistent
I guess that I don't see that. I feel like that I am very consistent. I believe that no one should OWN the rights to a flashlight host. The only inconsistency I see is that in spite of that belief, I agreed not to sell builds in a specific couple of hosts in order to try and drop this argument.

I don't think that philosophically there is any way for all of us to see eye-to-eye. DTR doesn't seem to mind if other people build the same hosts, other builders feel like they have signature hosts. It is a difference of opinion.

I've said what I would do - which is not to go around looking to copy builds, but if I find a host for sale and build a laser in it and someone says that it is "their signature host" then, oh well...

Quote:
and also drama trolling in well written form.
Thanks for the "well-written" part, but I am not intending to drama troll - whatever that may be.

I wouldn't even have been back in this thread at all if TJ hadn't jumped in and made accusations against me.

I'd prefer to drop it again if everyone is ok with that.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:18 AM #95
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

I think IE is referring to the inconsistency here:

Quote:
However, in order to attempt to soothe some egos and drop a fight....

.... I see that some people here get most of their exercise jumping to conclusions though.
You "want to drop the fight" but still feel compelled to make passive-aggressive jabs. That's just about as consistent as Clemson football...

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Old 04-03-2012, 12:37 AM #96
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Default Re: Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

This problem comes up from time to time
Flashlights, like cars, follow desirable patterns.
The more popular patterns get overused and sometimes there is crossover.

There is no "rule" here about this save the one that is included in many religions

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Think about what you are going to do.
If you wouldn't like someone else doing it to you, then don't do it

If you talk to a builder and he doesn't like what you are talking about doing, odds are you wouldn't like it either

If you feel the need to post a thread to get clarification about the "rightness" of some action, you are probably not real comfortable with said action

And, yes. I have TOO MANY flashlights here because I cannot/won't build lasers in them

Peace,
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