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Old 06-20-2008, 02:12 PM #17
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

I've always wanted a beefy portable, and I'm afraid I might have lost my X-105.

Count me in for the discount and the 350 w/ 2.5W diode.


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Old 06-20-2008, 02:58 PM #18
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by potatorage
How much would the deposit be?
Dunno TBH, how does 1/3 of the final price sound? So on a 300mW 2.5W, you'd send a little over $200 up front and I'll chip in the rest to order the laser on the preorder special. Then I'll just hold the laser for however long you need to pay off the remainder, and ship it to you then. I just ask for a non refundable deposit so I don't have people asking me to buy lasers out of my own pocket, and then they back out leaving me with lasers I can't afford sitting around my house (its happened far too often before). If 1/3 is too much for you, PM me and perhaps we can work something out.
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:04 PM #19
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenKat_Stonetek
[quote author=VillageIdiot link=1213928982/0#7 date=1213952148][quote author=john_lawson link=1213928982/0#6 date=1213951272] :-X
...
They're not made by Optotronics, so there's no probs... it's just the way you market 'em. [/quote]
...

Uhm...you DO realize that Optotronics is a RESELLER....they don't MAKE lasers...never have ! (Except for maybe personal use ?)[/quote]

Correct,
We have never claimed to be the manufacturer. In fact there are very few original manufacturers. Not DX, laserglow, not wicked, not really any of the big names most of us know.

Optotronics too will in the next week or two be offring the same DX killer offer and match any of these offers.
The only catch is that the other terms of sale will be matched as well (has to be an even playing field), so
warranty will be reduced to 30 days or whatever is being offered by the company we are matching. They will all include the same components as our "RPL" until my next order when I can place an order for the standard configuration that all the other companies are offering ( I'm not just talking about the diode as there's more to our regluar RPL than just the diode (don't ask it's proprietary and every company has it's secrets to give their product an edge on the competition). These "bare bones" will not qualify for the upgrade program either, nor for free shipping to/from China for any in or out of warranty repairs, like customers of the regular RPL have. This bare bones laser will have the option of ordering with or without the padded case, battery or charger, thus lowering the price even further and be available in the non-adjustable or adjustable tail cap style (DX doesn't offer this at all) or the buyer can get both types for the extra cost of $15 when the order is placed.

I'm having some health issues on the home front right now, so I need a week or so to take care of, as well as some other business to attend to, but the details, options and matched pricing will be on the website in the next week or so.

If our customers are looking for a low price alternative to DX and don't need the 12 month warranty or any of the other advantages like the upgrade program or free shipping to/from china for in/out of warranty repairs, then Optotronics will be there for them with a competing product, but much faster delivery than from DX.

Jack
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:13 PM #20
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootleg2go
If our customers are looking for a low price alternative to DX and don't need the 12 month warranty or any of the other advantages like the upgrade program or free shipping to/from china for in/out of warranty repairs, then Optotronics will be there for them with a competing product, but much faster delivery than from DX.

Jack
The market is becoming supply heavy. (good for buyers :-/ bad for sellers)

Take care.

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Old 06-20-2008, 04:07 PM #21
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

So Jack will give you the same offer I will, except he will charge for warranty shipping costs if you have any problems, and he's still using his 20 second test method while I still use a 60 second test cycle (IE, an RPL 400mW may be the same as a Prometheus 350mW due to the differing test methods, but never vice versa).

*scratches head*... Well if any of you feel that is somehow a better deal, feel free to jump on it!
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:13 PM #22
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootleg2go
( I'm not just talking about the diode as there's more to our regluar RPL than just the diode (don't ask it's proprietary and every company has it's secrets to give their product an edge on the competition)
All lasers I sell have an invisible fairy inside them. Don't ask for the schematics, its very very proprietary - a trade secret. 'They' protect it for me at area 51.

If you really must insist your products have something special to them, at least let us know what the advantage to it is? IE. McDonalds secret sauce is there for the flavor, regardless of the ingredients. I've taken apart the RPL 300 I bought from you for $1.3k and I don't see what sets it apart from the ones I sell other than talk.

I supported you before and you know that. I still feel your optics set is top notch. But I try to play fair and I hate trying to compete with people who play otherwise. I'm downright sick and tired of your made up trips to the manufacturer (before you even knew who the manufacturer was, no less) and all this "OMG, its getting less profit margin than mine, its a fake!!!1!" stuff. Its no coincidence that I started selling a few cheaper units here and there at the same time I found the manufacturer and started learning more of the truth behind the whole situation. I truly miss the days I could respect your company so blindly, but they have passed. There are still good reasons to buy from opto instead of me or DX, I admit that, and I wish you could be a bit more secure with that position of yours too. Hopefully then I could begin to respect you again, and not have to deal with such stressful utter nonesense all the time.
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:17 PM #23
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

I can see this thread turning nasty in 5 4 3 2 1....
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:20 PM #24
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudonomen137
So Jack will give you the same offer I will, except he will charge for warranty shipping costs if you have any problems, and he's still using his 20 second test method while I still use a 60 second test cycle (IE, an RPL 400mW may be the same as a Prometheus 350mW due to the differing test methods, but never vice versa).

*scratches head*... Well if any of you feel that is somehow a better deal, feel free to jump on it!
See what I mean? I fear the result of "price" becoming the main factor in the decision to buy a laser. However, we are bringing it on ourselves. Just look at the glut of people looking to "buy" at the lowest price possible and the number of people looking to sell components and units for a quick couple of bucks in their pocket. We are being too successful at promoting our hobby. Instead of finding and encouraging enthusiasts, we are spawning customers, looking for a deal.

I have seen the enemy and he is us

Peace,
dave
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:27 PM #25
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razako
I can see this thread turning nasty in 5 4 3 2 1....
Yeah, this tends to happen whenever I make a thread about my Prometheus or Oceanus units. I've just come to have to accept it. Sorry guys! Hopefully we can still stay as on topic as possible.
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:29 PM #26
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootleg2go
[quote author=SenKat_Stonetek link=1213928982/12#13 date=1213969818][quote author=VillageIdiot link=1213928982/0#7 date=1213952148][quote author=john_lawson link=1213928982/0#6 date=1213951272] :-X
...
They're not made by Optotronics, so there's no probs... it's just the way you market 'em. [/quote]
...

Uhm...you DO realize that Optotronics is a RESELLER....they don't MAKE lasers...never have ! (Except for maybe personal use ?)[/quote]

Correct,
We have never claimed to be the manufacturer. In fact there are very few original manufacturers. Not DX, laserglow, not wicked, not really any of the big names most of us know.

Optotronics too will in the next week or two be offring the same DX killer offer and match any of these offers.
The only catch is that the other terms of sale will be matched as well (has to be an even playing field), so
warranty will be reduced to 30 days or whatever is being offered by the company we are matching. They will all include the same components as our "RPL" until my next order when I can place an order for the standard configuration that all the other companies are offering ( I'm not just talking about the diode as there's more to our regluar RPL than just the diode (don't ask it's proprietary and every company has it's secrets to give their product an edge on the competition). These "bare bones" will not qualify for the upgrade program either, nor for free shipping to/from China for any in or out of warranty repairs, like customers of the regular RPL have. This bare bones laser will have the option of ordering with or without the padded case, battery or charger, thus lowering the price even further and be available in the non-adjustable or adjustable tail cap style (DX doesn't offer this at all) or the buyer can get both types for the extra cost of $15 when the order is placed.

I'm having some health issues on the home front right now, so I need a week or so to take care of, as well as some other business to attend to, but the details, options and matched pricing will be on the website in the next week or so.

If our customers are looking for a low price alternative to DX and don't need the 12 month warranty or any of the other advantages like the upgrade program or free shipping to/from china for in/out of warranty repairs, then Optotronics will be there for them with a competing product, but much faster delivery than from DX.

Jack[/quote]

Poor form, Jack

I am sorry your health is poor, for the record - but you just stomped in all over Pseudo's thread, with no regard for respect. You really should start your own thread dealing with the sales of your product - I was simply pointing out to the previous author, his mistake in stating that Optotronics makes the RPL's. Before any feelings are hurt - I smack down ANYONE who goes thread jumping, so please do not think for a second it is all about you, because it is not. I do hope you feel better soon.
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:13 PM #27
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenKat_Stonetek

Poor form, Jack

I am sorry your health is poor, for the record - but you just stomped in all over Pseudo's thread, with no regard for respect. You really should start your own thread dealing with the sales of your product - I was simply pointing out to the previous author, his mistake in stating that Optotronics makes the RPL's. Before any feelings are hurt - I smack down ANYONE who goes thread jumping, so please do not think for a second it is all about you, because it is not. I do hope you feel better soon.
Hi Greg,
No feelings are hurt and thank for the good wishes, I also hope your back is doing better.
I know you didn't say that quote, but was only replying to another post.

No, I'm not stomping on someone else's thread, our model name is in the title and that alone is more than enough relevance to post me comments, replies or rebuttals...If none of us could do that, then it would quickly turn into a "non-free" type forum like another we know. I do agree with you about stomping on threads with totally unrelated information like happens quite often, but that's part of the price to pay for a free and open forum the exchange of comments. opinions and ideas.

As for poor form, I thought this was a thread about a DX killer and taking out DX? I think it's relevant, but I will also make a separate thread by next week and DX, Carter or anyone is free to post in it as well, it's about our DX killer and it's a free and open market.

Not to add flame to the fire as I've been holding this back for some time, but since "poor form" is being talked about. Is it not poor form for someone to jump in with" shameless "PM me" posts whenever someone mentions an interest in an RPL? Or how about contacting people after they had placed an order with Optotronics and telling them it's not too late to buy one of theirs instead and suggesting to them (and I quote) " to Cancel the order with Optotronics if I didn't receive it yet, and that he is sure we can work it out".

Now that is really poor form with a little sign of desperation thrown in on the side; this is not the same Pseudo that I knew and considered the "Ralph Nader" of the laser world.
I thought that that Pseudo might be coming back when he recently said he was getting out of the laser sales business to begin his laser review company/website; perhaps that was just me reading between the lines and assuming he was getting out of the business so that there would be no conflicts of interest.

Now a couple comment s about the RPL that Pseudo got from us.
It was purchased from Optotronics in early August of 2006 (production was begun on the 1st RPLs in June of 2006 and his was part of the original 1st shipment from the 1st production run. Much has changed since then.
As far as testing, each RPL's average output power is determined by a (3 ) 1-minute trends on the field master meter, without the beamed being turned off at any point between runs thus by the time the 3rd pass is completed, the laser has been on and in continuous use for close to 5 minute (a 30 second or so warmup time before trending is started and then about 20 seconds each between the 2nd and 3rd pass so the the trend can be reset and data recorded. I do it this way as a limitation of the meter, if I go to a 3 minute trend, the sample period is also reduced by a factor of 3 thus instead of samplng at 10 times per second, it's get reduced to 3 times per second and any fast dropout that could easily be seen with the eye could be missed due to any 1/4 second glitches that happen in between samples. Beyond that, if there is ever problem, it will be handled in the warranty period (but that would be short for a DX special or our "bare bones" systems, but they are promised to meet their spec during their warranty period or they will be repaired or replaced.
One advantage that Pseudo offers with his products is a free laser power plot, very cool, DX doesn't give those out and in fact DX doesn't even test their lasers at all. Optotronics offers the full laser cert. but it's not free as my meter is older and doesn't interface with my notebook and even on a PC with a serial port, the results are not ploted as far as I know, just the raw data, So when I do it, it takes time, nearly 45 minutes or so as I have to take photos, convert them from RAW format, resize the for the word document and enter other measurements manually (kinda primative, but they look pretty good).

I've been shopping around for a good beam profiler so that very accurate automatic measurements of divergence as well as 3D color power plots, these are pretty expensive (4 to 6k), but the funds have been set aside and were looking. When we get the new toy, I'll want to use it all the time and since they are all interfacing nicely via a USB or firewire port, we'll also offer free of cost of these detailed results to RPL buyers as it will only take minutes to perform. (well, now I'm getting off topic, so I'll end it there).

Keep an eye on Optotronics in the next few weeks, the RPL laser body is taking on a whole new look that will be exclusive to the Optotronics RPL, so they will be very easily distinguished from any others on the market.
More news later. I wanted to keep this a secret as well, but I'm over flowing with excitement (hey, not that kind of excitement!) as this has been many months in the works...Stay tuned.

jack
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:03 PM #28
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

If any of you new guys are considering this deal but wondering how pseudonomen137's customer service & support is in comparison to some of the bigger companies, I can tell you this... Its top notch. As good as it gets! He's a great guy to deal with.

If I had some extra $$$ I'd be all over this one.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:44 PM #29
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Sorry Jack, I know what you mean. I used to try to never be too harsh or take any sides on anything. I still try to operate with as little bias and as much truth as possible, but I'm taking a more 'in your face' slant to things, eh? Kinda happened with the whole explosion of scammers out there who did it with no subtlety, and yet were still defended by large portions of the community. That pissed me off enough to start speaking my mind about pretty much any hyped up company I saw something bad with.

And yeah, I do sell things myself from time to time (the Prometheus Oceanus thing isn't something I always have, and I rarely sell any - haven't even sold 10 units to date). My profits on things are usually pretty slim and I encounter enough random losses to make up for it. Still, I find it kinda fun, and a great way to learn about a lot of different lasers and equipment without draining my pockets too heavily. I don't mean you, or anyone any serious competition, but I like to be left in peace while I do what I do. If people give even the slightest hint of criticism I feel is undue, I respond accordingly. (correct and constructive criticism is welcomed, but we rarely distribute that around the forums)

Sorry about the 20 second test comment. I checked your site and it still said you were just doing 200 sample, 10 sample/sec tests. You may want to update that so everyone can understand how thorough your test method is.

And in the end, this sale I'm doing is mostly to remind people that DX ain't god. I fully agree about how horrible their total lack of testing is, and their horrible RMA/cust support policy makes it very hard to recoupe losses when you get screwed by them. Admittedly, I am doing this out of personal frustration with DX. No harm is meant to you, though yeah, I see how it doesn't exactly help your business. I promise I don't mean to do anything on large volume though, and I shouldn't cost you more than a few customers every now and again. I hope you don't mind too much as I'm really not doing this to cause any damage to opto (which though I have plenty of disagreements with, is still one of the best there is).

Anyway, that's about all I have to say about that - not interested in getting caught up in the forum etiquette discussion quite yet (its important stuff, but perhaps better argued in a separate thread). You've teased me about that beam profiler before, so I'm not sure how much to trust you're gunna get one soon, but I'm really interested in seeing the results if you do! I've yet to see any part of our hobby see any good beam profiler tests to let us know TRUE divergence and modal characteristics. Too bad we don't have DIY beam profilers, eh? *


And thanks for the kind comments RattleHead. I can't say I haven't botched my fair share of deals, but I try my best to fix things up in a way thats fair to both me and my customer.


Off topic, but so everyone knows, when I test lasers its about the cold harsh numbers. My reviews will be done completely independent of anything I think or sell. I can't say I don't have biases, but I assure you I will never let the slightest hint of it creep into my test methods. I'm not afraid to admit if the data shows I'm wrong, I just try my best to make my biases right from the start
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:31 PM #30
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudonomen137
Sorry Jack, I know what you mean. I used to try to never be too harsh or take any sides on anything. I still try to operate with as little bias and as much truth as possible, but I'm taking a more 'in your face' slant to things, eh? Kinda happened with the whole explosion of scammers out there who did it with no subtlety, and yet were still defended by large portions of the community. That pissed me off enough to start speaking my mind about pretty much any hyped up company I saw something bad with.

And yeah, I do sell things myself from time to time (the Prometheus Oceanus thing isn't something I always have, and I rarely sell any - haven't even sold 10 units to date). My profits on things are usually pretty slim and I encounter enough random losses to make up for it. Still, I find it kinda fun, and a great way to learn about a lot of different lasers and equipment without draining my pockets too heavily. I don't mean you, or anyone any serious competition, but I like to be left in peace while I do what I do. If people give even the slightest hint of criticism I feel is undue, I respond accordingly. (correct and constructive criticism is welcomed, but we rarely distribute that around the forums)

Sorry about the 20 second test comment. I checked your site and it still said you were just doing 200 sample, 10 sample/sec tests. You may want to update that so everyone can understand how thorough your test method is.

And in the end, this sale I'm doing is mostly to remind people that DX ain't god. I fully agree about how horrible their total lack of testing is, and their horrible RMA/cust support policy makes it very hard to recoupe losses when you get screwed by them. Admittedly, I am doing this out of personal frustration with DX. No harm is meant to you, though yeah, I see how it doesn't exactly help your business. I promise I don't mean to do anything on large volume though, and I shouldn't cost you more than a few customers every now and again. I hope you don't mind too much as I'm really not doing this to cause any damage to opto (which though I have plenty of disagreements with, is still one of the best there is).

Anyway, that's about all I have to say about that - not interested in getting caught up in the forum etiquette discussion quite yet (its important stuff, but perhaps better argued in a separate thread). You've teased me about that beam profiler before, so I'm not sure how much to trust you're gunna get one soon, but I'm really interested in seeing the results if you do! I've yet to see any part of our hobby see any good beam profiler tests to let us know TRUE divergence and modal characteristics. Too bad we don't have DIY beam profilers, eh?


And thanks for the kind comments RattleHead. I can't say I haven't botched my fair share of deals, but I try my best to fix things up in a way thats fair to both me and my customer.


Off topic, but so everyone knows, when I test lasers its about the cold harsh numbers. My reviews will be done completely independent of anything I think or sell. I can't say I don't have biases, but I assure you I will never let the slightest hint of it creep into my test methods. I'm not afraid to admit if the data shows I'm wrong, I just try my best to make my biases right from the start

Hey, now that's the Carter I remember.
Thanks for your comments.
I too am frustrated some with DX and would rather anyone buy one from you than from them, with Psuedo, you know it'll be tested. DX tests nothing, they don't have time to, they have probably 1,000's of products and most of them are probably drop shipped with their packaging on them.

The other day I read a thread you had posted in about beam size / diameter and maybe mentioned a beam expander. If your interested, a couple months back I bought several dozen (yes, dozen) of the 3x and 10x Melles Griot beam expanders from that big sale that was going over at the surplushed. If you need or want one, I'll sell you one of mine at just a little over cost, hey, I gotta make a little bit as it costs some big bucks for that many and I haven't even had time to list them on the website yet.
I did get a machine shop to build me two adaptors (one for the 10x and one for the 3x) so that they can be mounted directly to the RPL by removing the aperture shutter on the front.
The place charged me $150 to make these two pieces, but said if they work and I want more, the price will come down some, but I don't think they'll go down below $35 per adapter even if I got 40 of them... Times like this I wish I knew a machinist or someone with the gear to make these that were in the laser hobby.

Let me know if you're interested, they ae pretty cool as they can be used to focus the beam down to the diameter of a nats rear-end from quite some distance.

Now I guess we're really off topic...
Hope everyone has a good weekend, this has been one long week.

Jack
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:39 PM #31
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudonomen137
Off topic, but so everyone knows, when I test lasers its about the cold harsh numbers. My reviews will be done completely independent of anything I think or sell. I can't say I don't have biases, but I assure you I will never let the slightest hint of it creep into my test methods. I'm not afraid to admit if the data shows I'm wrong, I just try my best to make my biases right from the start
On this, statement I believe you when you said this and I must admit we are very much alike in what you mentioned in this last sentence I often am not afraid to admit when I'm wrong...not that I like that, I would rather be right, but if I make a mistake I'm not afraid to admit it, try to fix it and make things right and learn from the experience. I turned 47 last month and I still learn lots of new things each day. Wish I knew what I know now when I was eighteen.

Jack
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:58 PM #32
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Default Re: RPL-equivalent lasers preorder CHEAP

Tell me what you know jack, so I know it when I'm 18. :

btw jack or carter, I may be selling my X Box 360 which should give me enough money to buy one of your lasers.

If I do sell it and make enough money I will contact you ( carter ) or jack I will purcahse from your site, i'm still undecided on who I want to go with.

Diachi
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