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Old 11-04-2008, 12:25 AM #17
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT
So we both came up with the exact same Max-Mass FlexDrive heatsink idea at the exact same time? Is that it?

All i know is that i sent you a drawing of my heatsink/module plans, and then see it here. The part where it gets tight in the middle, leaving room only for two wires is the part that got my attention.

Outside and the PCB step, that's a different thing. That is something dictated by necessity, if the module is to be closed off by the PCB and fit the host.... But you have to admit it looks exactly the same on the inside as well.


How come you didn't mention anything then, when you saw my design?
As you say the exterior is dictated by necessity. *I'm glad we can agree. *The inside tightens? *I think I understand - you are referring to the through hole where the wires run from the LD in the AixiZ module to the flexdriver/driver. *Well, frankly its an easy design choice to make. The wires are thin and only need a hole a couple of mm across (but its not worth doing that to save a little metal for other reasons so I chose a diameter which clears the LD pins so no shorts are possible plus viewing to verify this is possible) and the more metal in the sink the better. *Immediately when building these sinks it makes no sense to the builder to make the pocket for the driver any larger than necessary. *Same goes for the AixiZ pocket. *I've been doing this sort of thing for a while (though not specifically laser sinks) so its really very easy for me.

The dimensions of the cylinder must be the same to fit the host. The dimensions and depth of the aixiz module hole must be the same (and Flex driver pocket) if they are to fit a retain metal. The diameter and depth of the rim for the battery connect PCB must be identical as these are all factory parts. I suppose it looks odd on the surface but in reality I'm not surprised two people making an optimised sink for the same host with the same parts came to a very similar design. Its practically inevitable. Anyways, I'm sure there will be some inner dimensional difference. I did that sink purely but fit and feel on the lathe and wasn't working from any schematics sheet - no need when you have a good set of vernier calipers and all the components on hand ready to go.

When you sent me your design to make a sample I had already made a thread less sink on exactly this design principle for ishtob - and the day I made your samples I was swinging by my machines enroute to catch a plane. *I simply banged them out and posted them (did they arrive by the way?) *I noted obviously that they were for the Romisen based on the cylinder length and diameter and obviously for a AixiZ module and as stupid as it sounds I didn't think past that, I didn't twig that the lip was the same diameter as the host terminal connects PCB (I don't retain figures/birthdays etc very well, keep having to look at the damn schematic). *You see I was flying to see my girlfriend and I had other things on my mind. * : * *If I had forseen this unfortunate misunderstanding coming I would have naturally said, /hey that looks like something I made recently' - though I suppose even then you would only have my word on it except for the date of my heatsink thread. *Ishtob ordered it on the 13th October and I was able to make in quickly as I had already experimented with this design. *As a heads up I plan to release a solid sink where there is no AixiZ module, just one massive sink with a 5.6mm laser diode pocket and a threaded cylindrical volume in the front (9x0.5mm) standard thread for the AixiZ lenses.


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Old 11-04-2008, 12:31 AM #18
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Horse
[quote author=LikeitBright link=1225696466/0#13 date=1225749020][quote author=IgorT link=1225696466/0#11 date=1225746090]Wow.. Those heatsinks look kinda familiar. And the way they are designed from the inside... Did you design them? What could they possibly remind me of? Could it be a certain drawing?

Hey Igor, I know they look similar to your sinks - but thats because logically there is only one way to incorporate a solid one piece sink along with a flexdrive and AixiZ module into this host barrel. *There is no other way I am aware of incorporating these four specific [/quote]

There is only one way, *until someone comes up with another [smiley=evil.gif]

Nice builds by the way, copper is not so easy to work with, "very gummy"
DH
[/quote]
Hey thats awesome looking. Yeah, copper is horrible to work with frankly. I would never bother if it weren't for its fantastic thermal properties. Well, if someone comes up with another way to fit the battery connect PCB from the Romisen host, a Flexdrive and an AixiZ module into this host in a half sensible manner please let me know as it would be fascinating as frankly I don't think it can be done - I spent ages trying to squeeze things in there.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:37 AM #19
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

Like that first picture you posted. ***y. Nice chunk of copper. Must have been a bitch to machine. Looks great though, and functional as well.

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Old 11-04-2008, 07:38 AM #20
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

Was a bitch - this one was even worse. Came up nicely though. Check it out...




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Old 11-04-2008, 07:53 AM #21
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

The picture of the laser from Dark Horse looks fantastic.

I would love to know the particular make and model# of the host for a possible future build. Is it a Romisen?



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Old 11-04-2008, 03:25 PM #22
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

What i don't understand is, how you, when i sent you my plans, would not instantly recognise them, if you made the same thing before. I sent you the plans before that day when you had to go on a plane. You're saying you made the exact same thing before i sent the plans, but you did not recognize them when i sent you the drawing or at least when you started making them....

Someone, who doesn't know how to make lasers, and never saw my plans for it, but just the pictures recognised it immediatelly, and notified me about it, saying, that i should start giving my lasers serial numbers. You made them, but you didn't recognise that you already made them. This is the part that somehow still eludes me..

Somehow, i would have expected you to instantly write back and say "Hey, i made that exact same thing a few days ago! Look, a picture.", when i sent you that drawing...

I'm sorry, but this is what still confuses me. You had my plans for almost a week, before that day with the plane and all. And i still remember when i asked which one you are making, and you said "MaxMass FlexDrive, it's more challenging", but you didn't mention you already made the same thing yourself.



As far as i know, my original all-in-one heatsink/module was the first self contained and completelly enclosed design - a laser by itself. It opened in the middle, and screwed into the head directly.

The reason i made it like that was, that 10 years of making custom electronics for professional (ab)users thaught me to hate wires. So i always take this approach and it was reflected in my lasers.

Your Blu Ray design is most definitelly at least a little bit "inspired" by it - it is self contained, it opens in the middle and screws directly into the host head. You modified it a little to accept the FlexDrive, and you narrowed it down in the middle for more mass and you made it stick together instead of screwing together. Nice work there... I like it.

Then i make the v2, which is a single piece, doesn't open in the middle, but is just as self contained as before. So imagine my surprise, when i see the same thing i sent you drawings of.


The other design was just based on mine. But it was different enough, and i like how you did it. No complaints there. I even complimented on it.
But you are right. When basing a single piece heatsink design on my self contained heatsink/module, there really is not much room for them to be very different.


I guess some people just prefer to make something unique instead.. Problem is.. Now i want to change my design, just so that it won't be the same as.... my design. Hmm..

EDIT: There, i changed my design now. They are not identical anymore.. I guess it's all good now.
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:19 PM #23
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT
What i don't understand is, how you, when i sent you my plans, would not instantly recognise them, if you made the same thing before. I sent you the plans before that day when you had to go on a plane. You're saying you made the exact same thing before i sent the plans, but you did not recognize them when i sent you the drawing or at least when you started making them....

Someone, who doesn't know how to make lasers, and never saw my plans for it, but just the pictures recognised it immediatelly, and notified me about it, saying, that i should start giving my lasers serial numbers. You made them, but you didn't recognise that you already made them. This is the part that somehow still eludes me..

Somehow, i would have expected you to instantly write back and say "Hey, i made that exact same thing a few days ago! Look, a picture.", when i sent you that drawing...

I'm sorry, but this is what still confuses me. You had my plans for almost a week, before that day with the plane and all. And i still remember when i asked which one you are making, and you said "MaxMass FlexDrive, it's more challenging", but you didn't mention you already made the same thing yourself.



As far as i know, my original all-in-one heatsink/module was the first self contained and completelly enclosed design - a laser by itself. It opened in the middle, and screwed into the head directly.

The reason i made it like that was, that 10 years of making custom electronics for professional (ab)users thaught me to hate wires. So i always take this approach and it was reflected in my lasers.

Your Blu Ray design is most definitelly at least a little bit "inspired" by it - it is self contained, it opens in the middle and screws directly into the host head. You modified it a little to accept the FlexDrive, and you narrowed it down in the middle for more mass and you made it stick together instead of screwing together. Nice work there... I like it.

Then i make the v2, which is a single piece, doesn't open in the middle, but is just as self contained as before. So imagine my surprise, when i see the same thing i sent you drawings of.


The other design was just based on mine. But it was different enough, and i like how you did it. No complaints there. I even complimented on it.
But you are right. When basing a single piece heatsink design on my self contained heatsink/module, there really is not much room for them to be very different.


I guess some people just prefer to make something unique instead.. Problem is.. Now i want to change my design, just so that it won't be the same as.... my design. Hmm..

EDIT: There, i changed my design now. They are not identical anymore.. I guess it's all good now.
Ok, I'll try again with a rough time line. *I originally made a sink for an end user who requested no threads on the sink. Before I knew of your sink and before I offered to make you some free custom sinks of whatever design you wanted. I was enjoying machining sinks and wanted to do you a favor. * Making the threadless sink was easy to do because I had been making the two part push together threaded variety for a while. *So its just one long sink - and yes it narrows in the middle as its only sensible. *When machining its standard to run and center drill then a low diameter bit-I used 5.5 mm to accomodate the LD legs before using a larger diameter drill/reamer/boring bar to get the final exact inner diameter. *Then it makes no sense to machine out more metal than necessary *But I had to shift the battery contacts from the host to the end of the single sink....I did this by pure fit and feel the first time for the sink in the *photo proof I provided. *I didn't write down dimensions which is why I didn't recognise the figures you sent me a little later. *I didn't think about your application - and thats the gods honest truth. *I had too much else going on to even being thinking what you were doing exactly. *If I had switched on my mind with regards to you dimensions I would have figured it out quickly - but I didn't even begin to think about it as I was on my way out to catch a plane and had a week away with my girlfriend planned. *Thats what I was thinking about. * So you see - there is no guilty party here. *The fact is I built my first sink before I knew of yours, we can both take credit for this design independently - though as you say the concept of a heatsink which houses the driver also is yours.

As for the sinks being identical - well I'd be surprised if they are. *When I bored the depth for the AixiZ module and bored out somewhere to put the driver I did it by fit and feel - I didn't use measurements and even now I don't recall what measurements you used and you can be sure I'm not going to look at your plans. *I haven't looked at those plans since that day I made those custom sinks for you and I had only briefly glanced at them once before making them long enough to take in that one had more internal metal. *I know it sounds odd, but frankly the only thing I'm guilty of is not filing a 'LPF patent' on my original sink as soon as I made it, or even earlier, the first conception/protoype. *But yes absolutely I made the original two part sink with the aim of making a sink friendly to the laser builder as we know your sinks are sealed and should not/cannot be disassembled.


If you look at my sink you will also notice another difference. The portion towards the laser front has a lower diameter to accommodate the non threaded section near the end of the host barrel. In the fit and feel method I found it tightens on the sink here making it difficult to slide in/screw in....so there is an obvious external difference for you.
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Old 11-04-2008, 06:21 PM #24
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

That's ok. I understand now how it came to be...

It had the same starting point, and "evolved".. At this point it really couldn't be much different. You narrowed it down in the middle even before making it a single piece.

Besides, i have "come up" with things i thought were my idea, only to later realize i saw them somewhere before. When you see something good and like it, it sinks into your subconsciousness, and it then be incorporated into something you create, without even knowing..

It's all good..


The only thing i didn't understand was why you never mentioned anything to me. Even if you did use it, all i would expect would be for you to mention it.... Doesn't matter.



BTW, my original heatsink/modules were never sealed. They unscrewed in "half", slightly above the point where your blu ray heatsinks come appart. I sent you a series of pictures of that long ago, and explained it. You pull out the contact board, and simply unscrew the heatsink into two "halves". The only warning i ever gave was to pull out the contact board first, so as not to twist the contents by unscrewing the bottom part together with the PCB attached.

They were made to be opened regularly, giving easy access to the driver. They come appart into two pieces similar to your "two piece push-together" blu ray heatsink. I liked the idea of being able to open it quickly without any tools.

They had to be able to open easily, because i put jumpers on the driver, so people could select a higher current. It had to open for this very purpose.

The same thing allows me to replace diodes quickly, when serial-murdering them.


They come appart just like your blu ray heatsinks. You don't remember that? It's why i said that yours was based on it - both are two pieces that come appart easily.
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Old 11-04-2008, 06:41 PM #25
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT
That's ok. I understand now how it came to be...

It had the same starting point, and "evolved".. At this point it really couldn't be much different. You narrowed it down in the middle even before making it a single piece.

Besides, i have "come up" with things i thought were my idea, only to later realize i saw them somewhere before. When you see something good and like it, it sinks into your subconsciousness, and it then be incorporated into something you create, without even knowing..

It's all good..


The only thing i didn't understand was why you never mentioned anything to me. Even if you did use it, all i would expect would be for you to mention it.... Doesn't matter.



BTW, my original heatsink/modules were never sealed. They unscrewed in "half", slightly above the point where your blu ray heatsinks come appart. I sent you a series of pictures of that long ago, and explained it. You pull out the contact board, and simply unscrew the heatsink into two "halves". The only warning i ever gave was to pull out the contact board first, so as not to twist the contents by unscrewing the bottom part together with the PCB attached.

They were made to be opened regularly, giving easy access to the driver. They come appart into two pieces similar to your "two piece push-together" blu ray heatsink. I liked the idea of being able to open it quickly without any tools.

They had to be able to open easily, because i put jumpers on the driver, so people could select a higher current. It had to open for this very purpose.

The same thing allows me to replace diodes quickly, when serial-murdering them.


They come appart just like your blu ray heatsinks. You don't remember that?
Thank god for that . *Yes, I think you are right when it comes to ideas. *Probably very few ideas a truly original - just about all our ideas and technology is built on the back of earlier revisions and ideas and so on.....

Thats interesting - no I thought all your sinks were single piece and sealed.... I don't have a memory of ones that screwed together - how did you do that? *But when making a final complete laser (non prototype) you don't really want the user playing with the internals and blowing the laser diode unless you know they are honest and you can trust them to fess up so a sealed design does make sense. *

Certainly the one you sent me is sealed -washers with artic silver epoxy is it? I'm also going to do some comprehensive power measurements shortly on that laser using my freshly arrived Thorlabs digital thermopile LPM so I can let you know what numbers I get for it at last.
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Old 11-04-2008, 06:46 PM #26
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

No it's not sealed. I had those aluminum parts custom made to fit the AixiZ in the middle and the original host on the outside. But then the original host was discontinued and i was forced to use an aluminum washer at the very top of the upper heatsink half as an "adaptor" to make it centered in a host with a larger ID. The threaded part i stole from the host, just like you, but i thermal epoxied it to the bottom half of the heatsink.. It could be atached permanently, cos it opens higher up.

It unscrews into two solid parts. The one you have as well. What would be the point of making a laser that can not open? Imagine how much hassle it would be to fix one! It was made just for that - easy access. Basically, it opens just like yours, that's why i thought you were copying it.


And btw, it can support even an open can diode at 430mA, keeping it bellow body temp for 11 minutes straight, and after that it stops climbing in temperature. The PHR is more than well enough taken care of. It takes an hour just to reach body temp, and that's at 160mA. Yours is at 125mA.

I would not sell a build, that would not be beter than good enough. And i especially wouldn't put my $350 6x diode into it, if i wasn't sure it worked great. I tested it with a tiny SMD temperature probe soldered onto the diode, letting it run for hours many times under different conditions.

Each build has an unlimited duty cycle, even with an open can.
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Old 11-04-2008, 06:52 PM #27
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

I didn't spot that. Shall have to look now. I made this last night - a aluminium/copper hybrid.


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Old 11-04-2008, 06:54 PM #28
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

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I didn't spot that. *Shall have to look now. * I made this last night - a aluminium/copper hybrid.
Let me send you those pictures again. The ones where i explained it to you.

My ideal heatsink would be like that, but if you imagine the top part as one piece of aluminum with the AixiZ module head, and the bottom part would screw on it. That's what i was trying to do there. But then they discontinued the host on me, and i had to change it a bit. I had 600 of those pure aluminum rings made just before that, so i had to enlarge the OD at the very top.

The top part is thermal epoxied to AixiZ head, and the bottom part is thermal epoxied to a shortened AixiZ bottom. It's the AixiZ module, that allows it to unscrew. The bottom part of the heatsink presses against the top, and also has good contact over the threads. When i was adjusting the open can in the same build, it got hot, so i immediatelly screwed the bottom on it, and it got cool almost instantly. With hotter diodes i put some thermal paste onto the threads, where the two parts come together and it works surprisingly well even with an open can!


But it is true, that most people wouldn't know how to open it, and that's good, so that they ask me first, and i can show them, and tell help them do what they want, before they kill it.. From my real work, i'm not used to people messing with the devices i make. Here i had to adapt my way of thinking..

My new heatsink was partially made to make my work easier, and partially so it's a more traditional approach for DIY'ers. But even tho it's a single piece, they are both the same, when it comes to heatsinking.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:08 PM #29
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

Ah I see....yes I see how that would work. Well, I'm working on that ideal heatsink, have been trying for a while now and I think I have the machining protocol right now. The problem is you have to open up the sink internals a bit to allow pressing of the LD into place so you loose mass there but its not a big issue as I have made tools from stainless which allow the LD to be precisely and squarely pressed into place without rocking it from side to side or killing with with torsional forces. Done that in the past!
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:14 PM #30
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

See, this is why i said you based it on mine. I showed you pictures of how it comes appart. You forgot about it, but your subconsciousness didn't, and then you made something similar...

You are absolutelly right about the ideas...


Anyway, glad we got that sorted out.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:29 PM #31
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

My heatsink drop-in for the Romisen RC-N3.


With this heatsink all you need to do is solder the wires between the LD and Driver and attach a spring to the positive battery side of the driver.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:38 PM #32
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Default Re: Pure copper HS 300mW 650nm laser.....

The driver is held by the ID of that tube, and gets stopped at the step, right? That way it can't tilt, and the pressure from the spring doesn't affect it...

Nice..


Now we turned this into a heatsink thread. It was supposed to be a sales thread..

Anyway, LikeItBright. I'm sorry about the misunderstanding. I hope you sell this laser quickly and not too cheaply. I can vouch, that the design works great.. *;D
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