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Old 04-28-2008, 11:56 PM #65
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

It's not about a patent or milos being the only one who knows how to make the product.

It's a case of trademark. Milos developed an image for his product. That whole image surrounding his product falls under trademark, and doesn't have to be registered. The "look" of the laser pointer, which he was the first to come up with, the putting the decorative cube with it, the advertising words, all of those things are distinctly and uniquely related to his product. Jake copied all of those things, made his product assume the "persona" of Milos's laser. This CLEARLY tried to confuse people and trick them into thinking they were buying Milos's laser, or at least making his product assume all the other properties we associate with Milos (like "quality&quot. If this were between 2 large companies, they would already be in court.

Lucky for all of us, it's not between 2 large corporations. So, it's not cool, Jake. It is a free country, but what you did is AT BEST not cool at all, and clearly frowned upon in this community. At worst, it's illegal and still completely not cool at all and frowned upon.

And Glaser, you're looking at copyright law. THIS IS NOT A CASE OF COPYRIGHT. And, your view of copyright is as though Milos released his design under something like the GPL, which he did not. This is about trademark, not copyright, and even if it were copyright, your view of the law is still only valid under certain license(s).


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Old 04-28-2008, 11:58 PM #66
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

Look at the very first thread I posted to sell this type of unit. I listed all the components. I never had a drawing, nor did I make one for myself. No one (except Jake) ever even asked me for circuit drawing publicly. And thats a fact.

I you come to me and say " Hey, I wanna try to build this type of laser like yours" I would say find and buy this flashlight, and modify it carefully. Watch out for this and that, and whala, hopefully it will light up. If i notice you are mean about this I will not give that much details. But god knows I go into details when writing about my discoveries.

I know I sound like nut on his thread, but trust me, or check my other threads (on any forum), I do talk to people nicely. But this is what happens. You get stabbed in the back after so much helping, and right in the face. That is what is NOT NICE.

I noticed recently Jake21 was only PM and EM all over to build and sell right away. Telling him everything would not help him - trust me. I always encourage people to do at least some research first, and not ask for everything to be handed on the plate to them. He even gave up on forums as I told him to do some research, and then he tried to trick me and start from scratch via eBay email. He pretended he was really gonna buy my laser but he really was just asking all the same questions again.

Like I said, I could have given him all of it (which isn't much -and, once again is NOT point) He would have still rushed out and plagiarized my auction as a sign of "thank you".

now, it would be nice to talk to Jake about this as well and not just you and me, instead of him just reading and waiting to see if he will have to take auction down or not.



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Old 04-29-2008, 12:03 AM #67
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

Point taken- which is why I never understood why Milos didnt share his design in the first place.........That is what this forum and any other I am in are all about. All jake needs to do is redo his auction and say that the basic design is the same as the other laser, just his is built less expensive.

Again, look at Jayrob(my apologies to Jay for my continually mentioning him). He is selling ones of his own design(similar to others yes but unique in their own way), and doing well at it because ppl know he has a high quality product.. BUT he saved himself alot of grief by deciding to share his design down to the last detail from the start.

Post your stuff in a forum like this, and anything you keep secret(Milos told Jake some things were"secret&quot is bound to be discovered. Forums are all about shared knowledge.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:04 AM #68
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

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Originally Posted by Glaserfan
I see the point of the thread- I repeat- HE NEEDS TO CREDIT YOU- plus I have told him to reword his auction. Point me to a thread that publicly shows the internals of your bluray, and the source of that box, and I'll shut up about the rest. Someone was bound to copy you, unforunately for Jake, he was the first.

He does have a right to sell these though, juist as anyone who copies any of the lasers in this forum does- again as long as they credit the original designer.

I still stand by this. Nasty threads, insults and threats only serve to hurt both of ya. that right there is the BEST advice I can give.
The point is not giving the credit to Milos, jake should've asked Milos BEFORE attempting to sell a copy of his laser.
There is no thread showing Milos' design because his laser wasn't intended for other people to build, he wanted to make a profit out of it. Milos was nice enough to help jake build one and now he does this!!! That is simply not right, the point here is that jake tried to sell a copy of Milos' laser without his permission using a similar auction like that of Milos' with quotes identical to that of Milos, it's really that simple, jake did something wrong and should stop ignoring this thread. He should apologize to Milos publicly right here right now.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:12 AM #69
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

OK.. maybe I need to do some deeper research.. I never saw the original design or a list of components when I first saw your lasers, Milos. Not saying they aren't there, just in my "looking around" I have not found them yet(and no i haven't looked in the past few hours). I have suggested to Jake to totally redo his auction, which I believe he is doing.

I still think you guys can both sucessfully sell these without stomping on each other.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:14 AM #70
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

I know a couple of things about how Jake came to know of certain parts of the design.. AFAIK Milos didnt tell him everything.. Jake had to figure out some of it on his own.

Jake will have to share what he figured out on his own though.. its not my place to do.

If what you say is true about Milos not sharing the design, he could have saved himself alot of grief by doing just that(sharing it). Others here are still selling quite well, even though people know very well how to make the same exact thing on their own. Again this like any other forum is a place of common knowledge.

If Jake hadn't done this, i bet someone else would have, just because of the "secret" factor. Not everyone can afford to buy quality at its high price.

To tell you the absolute TURTH, if someone copies me(and they have in other ventures), I just step up and show people why it's better to buy from me, and live with the cheaper competition.. the people who buy cheaper 90% of the time couldnt afford my product anyway.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:18 AM #71
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

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Originally Posted by Glaserfan
Take Jayrob's lasers for instance. He is a reputable builder, and offers one awesome quality product. He also puts evey bit of knowledge into his design in the public domain. People know EXACTLY what they are getting from him, tested and all. Even though its right there in plain english how to build his lasers, and where to get the parts, people STILL buy from him, and at a price that is up there for a DIY laser. Why??, because they KNOW that they are getting a quality, tested product, and the effort put into it. There are even others out there selling Jayrob lasers, based on the same design, and you dont hear Jayrob bitching about it, since he knows that people will still buy from him because his product is proven to be worth it.
Just to clarify that my build is only a 'pumped up' version of DDL's original DIY Laser Torch. Not really an original design like Miloš' design.

I don't really want to add to this thread except for that clarification...
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:25 AM #72
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

Again shifting off the point of this thread. I don't need to know what he figured out for himself, and if his circuit board is hot or not now. Its NOT THE POINT.

He represented himself as me (after I had been helping him for 4 months on learning and finding hosts) and thats the bottom line! I don't have copy rights on this, and it takes 30min to searching online to find flashlight like I use, and 1000 differen't drivers inside will make light go ON.

Jake, take this auction down, Create your own auction, find your own advertising style, and don't ever copy-paste my words, title, subtitles, and you will be ok.

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Old 04-29-2008, 12:29 AM #73
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

...Which is what I have suggested to him to do. I'll modify some of my posts down.. I really did think the main problem was that he copied the laser itself...........

Pardon me(said nicely) for being a out of my place mediator.. just trying to settle it b4 it got really bad, And the attitude earlier in this thread is why I was so strong in my posts..
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:47 AM #74
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

this has gotten way outta controll. Id be mad about the whole copying the auction thing, but all these lasers we make are all made from different parts and other things, nobody owns rights to them. I believe he can sell build and sell whatever he wants. But i would buy a milos laser, Its a good build, and he has more "know how". But that hologram?? thats a little too far dude.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:50 AM #75
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!


I've gotta side with Miloš here...

Any creative person who has put his heart into building something will be pissed when someone rips off his idea. Whether it's words, music, hot-rods or lasers. I can totally understand Miloš's anger at seeing his product and auction copied. It's no different than somebody ripping off your YouTube video and claiming it as his. It's lame, and Jake21 will have to pay the consequences for his ignorance.

The idea that "anything goes", put forward in this thread, is a direct result of years of intellectual piracy, from BitTorrent to Chinese knock-off factories, which will eventually spell the end of innovation as we know it. Few people under 20 give a damn about intellectual property as long as they can get it for free or cheaper. This kind of attitude is why America will be bought out by the Chinese, one WalMart at a time. The future belongs to thieves, and mediocrity is their spawn.

Miloš's reaction certainly won't hurt his own reputation. If anything, it shows how much pride he has in his products and his marketing. Every artist is passionate about his work, whatever form it takes. Crediting Miloš is no solution either. Taking down his auction and selling his own laser design with his own words is the only thing Jake can do to regain any semblance of legitimacy here, IMO.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:01 AM #76
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob
Just to clarify that my build is only a 'pumped up' version of DDL's original DIY Laser Torch. Not really an original design like Miloš' design.

I don't really want to add to this thread except for that clarification...
And you have right up front with that info from the beginning along with posting links to DDl's original postings.

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Old 04-29-2008, 01:09 AM #77
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

Jake has apologized to me and took the auction down.

I want to publicly thank him for not ignoring this thread anymore, and doing the right thing.

I hope it wasn't done only for his own reputation, but he understood wrong parts he did in the way he posted his item, along with mine. And it is his item! I have no control over it,

..but it does matter huge just how you take someone else's ideas and use them for your benefit.

I don't mind if you sell such laser on here or ebay Jake - ever! Its all good if you do your thing and I do mine, as long as there is no copy -pasting ideas and words.

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Old 04-29-2008, 01:22 AM #78
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

I've just read through this thread here. Interesting stuff.

Not sure about patents and stuff, but certainly there is a lack of respect here. If you learn about lasers from someone and use some of there designs, by golly you should acknowledge them, especially if you are going commercial (Though the copying of the eBay titles and stuff was a bit much though)

That's just my 2 cents.

Glad it had a happy ending though (I love happy endings)
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:31 AM #79
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

[quote=Miloš]
Quote:

An why do you keep comparing my product as higher price and quality? Do you even know what prices are outhere for blueray lasers 5-25mW Does Jake even know what power outputs he is selling ? I don't think so.
FYI: yeah he does, he just bought a nice $150 laser power meter.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:34 AM #80
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Default Re: Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

Just to add this to the mix.. From the start of my jumping into the thread, I had suggested to Jake to one way or another make his auction totally different from Milos' auction.. The replies were heppening so fast that by the time I got done typing mine, there were more up, and yes I did miss the main point being the copied auction(although at the same time was suggesting to Jake himself that he change that). I also just tried to throw in some long-proven advice into th mix.

I really am a firm believer that taking a brunt attitude towards things does no real good, which is why I jumped into this in the first place. I have seen many a good business opportunity ruined by bad attitude...

LOL, and for as much as I have looked around in this forum and talked to Jake in the past couple of weeks, I still don't know what the host for this laser is . Not that I need to
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