Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

Kenom's post reminds me of something else..

Take Jayrob's lasers for instance. He is a reputable builder, and offers one awesome quality product. He also puts evey bit of knowledge into his design in the public domain. People know EXACTLY what they are getting from him, tested and all. Even though its right there in plain english how to build his lasers, and where to get the parts, people STILL buy from him, and at a price that is up there for a DIY laser. Why??, because they KNOW that they are getting a quality, tested product, and the effort put into it. There are even others out there selling Jayrob lasers, based on the same design, and you dont hear Jayrob bitching about it, since he knows that people will still buy from him because his product is proven to be worth it.

Maybe Milos should try this.. his sales will still soar, and ppl will still buy from him, just ppl that arent rich will buy Jakes. there is room for both builders here, and bioth have a right to continue. Jake had to finjd thos boxes himself, and doesn't know much of Milos' internals. he had to figutre that out for himself..

C'mon guys.. think about it. Many newcomers that see this thread I am sure will feel the same after they look at ALL the facts posted here. It's like being a sore loser at a football game bacause the other team won by figuring out your play.

Glaserfan said:

Reading Daguins' post. Yes, Milos came up tith the idea.. BUT AFAIK there is NO patent,

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A patent is only one type of protection for intellectual property. It is not the only. Publication = announcement of ownership. I granted his right to make one for his own use. The problem comes in when he makes one for profit. If he "improves" on it, then he is free to use it (pending litigation). He may still owe the original designer if there is not a substantial improvement. The intellectual property laws were written, in part, to allow the exchange of ideas in an open forum without giving up the right to ownership.

In addition, none of your answer even begins to approach the other problems with this. In rhetoric we call this a "straw man" argument. You set up one argument that you think you can defeat while ignoring the entire argument. How about the copyright problem? How about the wire fraud problem? How about the violation of trust? As far as this being the good old US of A, the intellectual property laws were written here. One cannot steal someone else's idea for profit.

Peace,
dave

Milos has a right to be upset about jake not crediting him and more or less stealing his auction text and ideas. One does expect appropriate credit on a forum here because many of us think of it as some loosely knit family, and when a member comes on and takes value from people and then insults them by not returning anything but a slap 'free country man' reply, it's not good.

Milos's anger that comes out in this thread is partially because we need to preserve the expected give and take through discipline to maintain the more knowledgeable and valuable members, otherwise what is the point in them sharing time and effort giving out information? Jake essentially 'took advantage' of the situation and, yes, is free to do so. But in doing so he should expect this backlash from the forum 'givers'.

I am sorry(and I tell ya what nobody better smack my rep for this), but these are facts. So, Jake copied you(to a point), but hey, this is the US.. Happens everyday. After all this is a hobby, and most of us know what the differences will be, and how to make the same thing anyhow.

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People like you and Jake are seriously missing the whole moral idea of shameless copying that he did to earn a pity dollar. Its the USA WAY ITS THE USA WAY. If this country was relying on people with your attitudes, there it would be a civil war #2 here by now.

An why do you keep comparing my product as higher price and quality? Do you even know what prices are outhere for blueray lasers 5-25mW Does Jake even know what power outputs he is selling ? I don't think so.

You are defending him because he's lasers are cheaper? He's buy now price is same as mine. Stop ignoring big facts and shiffting focus on small ones. Who cares what he's reserve price is? I change mine almost every auction. What kind of the point are you trying to make with this...AND WHY??

You don't know me dude, so don't try to behave like you do. Ask anyone when they saw me mad before. I've been form member all over for 3 years, and I have never seen anyone pull what Jake21 has done.

And you are attacking ME ? (and my avatar :-/) You should probably stay out of this. Jake can speak for himself. He has proven to be very communicative thus far. Not today so much..

no shame

Senkat, I have quite a bit of respect for you, and actually plan on buying some of your product in the near future. I am in a 3rd party observing posistion here.. And have seen this before.. MANY times. Jake needs to credit Milos for the design, yes. I agree with that. He's new.. everyone knows this. He does take pride in his lasers, but his low budget forces him to sell as he makes to keep going until he can afford to keep some of what he makes.

I am not bitching about people making a buck off a groub buy.. Hell I plan on doing the same thing.. when I do though, I will SHARE my design, like Jayrob has. Milos should try the same thing, and this would have never happened. Someone was bound to copy him, its just the nature of things.. keep secrets and someone will figure them out. For the record, I wasn't around here when you got ripped, but if i was, I'd have been on your side about it

I am an easy going guy, and just trying to state some facts, and actually make suggestions to both parties involved. I have said my peace though, and as long as everone leaves what i have said as is, will say no more. If you carefully read and think about everything I have said, you'll see my points. For the record, I can see where both parties have stepped on their own toes. I am just trying to bring out some facts and reality in the situation, which may help both. If milos drops the attitude, maybe even i will buy from him, when i can- I am one of the low budget guys.

My opinion of anyone becvause of this hasn't gone down really.. I do not succumb to the fight as easy as others I just don't think bad attitude is good for business.

BTW,

I knew Jake built laser like me "finally" as he said last week. I even told him to be careful with modifying driver board. I was still his friend and helping him like I did for the past 4 months since he took voltmeter in his hands for the first time. And did i get mad. No, anyone can do research and build what someone else built. Even if he showed it off here I would give him tap on the back as I always do when he posts his new DIY laser. But he stabbed me in the back by stealing my words and style of advertisement for the same product! Do you also not see anything wrong with this Glaserfan ? I don't want to argue with you as this is about Jake (and some others he pissed off) and me, just don't think you "know me"


Jake, if you are waiting to see results of what we argue out (for you) .. thats not cool either.

What everyone needs to do is some up with designs that are extremely hard to copy.

Like the new flexdrivers, im not sure they would be very easy for someone to copy. If you can build your own driver and somehow make it extremely hard to copy people won't rip off your stuff and try to sell off cheaper clones.

I read this and shake my head --- Some have damned me because I won't build lasers to sell to them :-? I now know why.
Guess I won't be posting any knowledge here. PM me and I'll decide.

Mike

Milos, I am not attacking YOU, just the attitude you are taking. Buck up to some friendly competition(as long as Jake credits you in ALL his sales of this laser)<- AND I DO STRESS THIS. I KNOW the price of comparable lasers.. very well. People KNOW you have a good rep and a quality product.. I just think you should have shared it with others like say DDL and Jayrob have. You still will keep your sales, I am sure. I am just opening some facts as to the way business goes in this country.. this happens everyday. I am 34 and have been in my own private business transactions and have had simialer happen to me- what i am saying here works, trust me. Please do not kill me down for stating some facts. I am trying to help you both. I KNOW jake needs to credit you, and have told him so. I just think this.. the "secret" is out.. take Jayrob's approach and share the knowledge(after all that is what this site is about. Your reputation stands for itself, and people will STILL buy from you just like they do from him. But, there are people tat cannot afford top buy yours, and will build the laser themself. I think your sales will soar actually if you do this. Having a nasty attitude isn't going to help(and I mean that in the Nicest way I can). I am not here to kill off anybody or slam them, again just trying to help both of ya. I'll go back and edit my posts later tonight so I do not come off so strong. after all, attitude can be everything in business.

EDIT- yes I do see what Jake did wrong, and have told him he needs to credit you(and everyone else).. I am also trying to advise you on how to keep your own sales string with the "new" competition.

Just read everything I have said and really think about it I realy have no more to offer to this argument, and will try to step out. I'll only return to it if I have to.

Just as an FYI - while we are giving credit where credit is due - the "DDL Driver" is a stock LM317 circuit that was designed back in 1950 something... DDL brought his "discovery" to this forum to share his knowledge of electronics. He didn't design it - ask Hemlock Mike, he was THERE !

Everyone needs to step back and let Jake and Milos talk - Glaserfan, you are not helping matters by continuing your posts about, "Jake has done nothing wrong" you have spoken your piece, now let Jake reply - I think he can take care of himself.

spyrorocks said:

What everyone needs to do is some up with designs that are extremely hard to copy.

Like the new flexdrivers, im not sure they would be very easy for someone to copy. If you can build your own driver and somehow make it extremely hard to copy people won't rip off your stuff and try to sell off cheaper clones.

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hehe put ur driver in a really small box then weld the box shut and then weld into case, smother with liberal amounts of super glue and then no-one can see what your driver looks like.

I am not bitching about people making a buck off a groub buy.. Hell I plan on doing the same thing.. when I do though, I will SHARE my design, like Jayrob has. Milos should try the same thing, and this would have never happened. Someone was bound to copy him, its just the nature of things.. keep secrets and someone will figure them out. For the record, I wasn't around here when you got ripped, but if i was, I'd have been on your side about it

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Again you are WRONG ( not only that I help and share my knowledge on here and other forums- just ask around), but for this. Let me ask you something:

If I had told Jake21 %100 how to build laser the way I build this (which is what you are suggesting I should have done), and then he goes and does the same thing (stabs me in the back by stealing everything else I thought of and wrote on my page) Would that make it all better in your opinion. You and Jake keep missing the whole point of this thread.

BTW It makes NO difference what driver you built inside and make your laser work, if you then go and steal someones advertising idea by COPY-PASTING. No one on ebay can see inside the laser anyway.

Jake, take the stolen auction item/advertisement off tonight.

Or use some sort of programmable microcontroller so no one can steal your code.

spyrorocks said:

Or use some sort of programmable microcontroller so no one can steal your code.

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Again you guys are missing the point of this thread. NOBODY CARES WHAT DRIVER IS INSIDE AND WHETHER HE COPIED IT FROM ME OR BUILT HIS OWN VERSION. NOBODY IS MAD AT JAKE@! FOR BUILDING A FUNCTIONAL ADJUSTABLE POWER BLU-RAY LASER THAT LOOKS ALMOST LIKE MINE.

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR CREDIT ON HIS AUCTION !!! ANYONE CAN BUY THIS FLASHLIGHT AND MODIFY IT TO MAKE MANY LASERS !!!

..and please stop missing the point and taking this thread wrong direction.

Jake should know what wrong he did by now, and should respond !

I get the point, he plagiarized your auctions, im just stating methods that you could use to make lasers unique to you.

I see the point of the thread- I repeat- HE NEEDS TO CREDIT YOU- plus I have told him to reword his auction. Point me to a thread that publicly shows the internals of your bluray, and the source of that box, and I'll shut up about the rest. Someone was bound to copy you, unforunately for Jake, he was the first.

He does have a right to sell these though, juist as anyone who copies any of the lasers in this forum does- again as long as they credit the original designer.

I still stand by this. Nasty threads, insults and threats only serve to hurt both of ya. that right there is the BEST advice I can give.