Jake21 – WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

I FELT the same too, and gave him multiple advice and taps on the back when he makes something. He couldn't even use multimeter in Januarry. He bothered like 5 of us on PMs and multiple threads to help him test curent, and we all helped him A LOT.

Now all he has to say is "its a free country ican sell and make what ever i want to even if it is some one elses idea"

this is no way right. As a matter of fact - YOU PISSED ME OFF BIG TIME JAKE !

milos is that guy in the picture you?

i never though people would be so pissed off, the way i see it's like every single one including me who built dorcy jr's and i did not see kenom rampaging about his laser he built. i found the box and every thing, built a driver for it ect... but u helped me but what info did u give me on how to make it ? because if u didnt want me/anyone to make it u shouldn't helped me out. damn i didnt no i would get every pissed just by making his laser. oh and for the guys who bough lasers from me, email me and ill give u the insurance numbers for thim.

It is also the fact that you copied his ebay listing almost exactly

dude, you still don't understand what you did.!

Thats why I want to deal with you here and not personally so you don't say its just my opinion. I know you have different views, buy how can you even ask me "why did I help you" This place is for helping and sharing,

Not just taking and selling and stabbing people who help you in the back.

Take your auction completely. You are using so much of my stuff that I could whip you off eBay for good. I got proof, as you saw, so don't even bother changing your auction.

Re: Jake21 [ch8211] WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

jake21 said:

i never though people would be so pissed off, the way i see it's like every single one including me who built dorcy jr's and i did not see kenom rampaging about his laser he built. i found the box and every thing, built a driver for it ect... but u helped me but what info did u give me on how to make it ? because if u didnt want me/anyone to make it u shouldn't helped me out. damn i didnt no i would get every pissed just by making his laser. oh and for the guys who bough lasers from me, email me  and ill give u the insurance numbers for thim.

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I think since Milos' laser is so unique, and since he practically held your hand along the way, he feels betrayed that you would copy him, AND try to sell the laser with practically the same listing. I don't think the situation would be nearly as bad execpt for the fact that your selling the laser. If you kept it for yourself, it would seem more like flattery.

jake21 said:

i never though people would be so pissed off, the way i see it's like every single one including me who built dorcy jr's and i did not see kenom rampaging about his laser he built. i found the box and every thing, built a driver for it ect... but u helped me but what info did u give me on how to make it ? because if u didnt want me/anyone to make it u shouldn't helped me out. damn i didnt no i would get every pissed just by making his laser. oh and for the guys who bough lasers from me, email me and ill give u the insurance numbers for thim.

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Kenom made his idea into a tutorial for building dorcy flashlights unlike Milos, you basically STOLE Milos' idea.
BTW, Kenom is kind of pissed off anyway.

Your whole focus on this forum is getting answers from other about how they build their DIY laser so you can build exactly what they build and sell. You don't see anything wrong there. Anything that is immoral and might piss of people who shared their idea with you?

Thats one part.

You copy pasted my sentences and you took everything from my advertising style idea and put it on your sale. - THAT ALONE CAN COST YOU (AND WILL IF YOU DON"T REMOVE THE AUCTION) A LOT !

Its as if I collected parts and built Scram0 laser (parts are common, i could make one) and start selling it next to him.
http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1205087161

I guess it would be ok in your book. Well its not Jake!
The sooner you realize this and take auction down, the less painful i will make your online life.

WOW!

This is wrong on so many levels. The one that you should be the most concerned about is the theft of Milos intellectual property. Milos design has NOT been placed in the public domain. Kenom's was. As such, you are entitled to make one for your own use, but NOT to sell. If someone buys your laser, and Milos shows that you took the idea from him, you will owe Milos any money you collected. That is the tort. Milos will have suffered a monetary loss because of your theft of his intellectual property. PLUS, you open yourself to punitive (punishment) damages beyond just what you made from the sale of the unit based in stolen property. If he can prove that you contacted him with the express purpose of stealing his idea to make a profit, you are open for even more problems. How does the idea of wire fraud ( a felony) hit you?

A second theft of intellectual property seems to have occurred in your use of his descriptions from the eBay ad. Words are also "owned" by the person who wrote them. If Milos can prove that you were aware of his auction and had read it, you are liable for any dilution of his "worth" on eBay.

Finally, you have violated the trust of all of the people in this forum. Information is shared here in the interest of furthering our understanding and enjoyment of lasers. If people like Milos, Kenom, Mike, jayrob, DrLava, rckstr, toked, etc. (sorry to any designers I've forgotten) have to start worrying about who is going to steal their ideas for their own personal gain, these forums will die. How quickly do you think you would have been able to build your own laser without the info available from these people here and through PM's?

Apologize to Milos and the members of this forum. Remove your auction. Refer the people who have already bid to Milos' auction. Use your Milos designed laser for personal use. Design your own. Sell it.

Peace,
dave

This site NEEDS som serious mods....... here are some facts I know about Jake.

1) I asked him all sorts of advice on how to build, along with a few others in here. Like everyone else, he answered courteously.

2) When I said that I wanted to build lasers and sell in the future, he replied that that wouldn't bother him one bit.

3) I bought one of his MXDL builds based on the original DDL design, and have to say that it is quite a nice laser. Since then I have been talking to him often on YIM, and he still helps me out any way he can.

4) About a week and a half after buying the laser, it broke down(diode died). I contacted him and he sent me another diode, along with a few more to boot.. I tried them, and they worked perfectly for a few mins, and went out.. now I tested the driver, but I am new to all this, so it's on it's way back for him and he's fixing it up for free(He is making SURE no matter what that I get what I paid for).

5) He talked with me about the "Milos" laser.. and here are the facts. His laser is different than Milo's laser i am sure.. His price is also LOWER( I know his reserve and will not say but its MUCH lower than Milos's). Thjis is because they are not EXACTLY the same, and Jake knows he does not have the same equipment to make them.. Now, Milos doesnt have a patent, and Jake happened to find the same box as Milos. The inside I bet is quite a bit different, not to mention Milos does NOT manufacture the case. Milos, do you have a pattent? If so speak up and prove it, otherwise there is NOTHING you can do.

It boils down to this.. if a buyer can afford TOP DOLLAR for a laser made of a fairly low priced(but albeit nice looking) adjustable case, containing a harvested diode froma $30 laser unit, and the homemeade contents to make it work(not much in parts), BUT tested and built by a well-known builder, than buy Milos' laser........BUT, if you are someone who likes Milos' laser and doesnt have tons of $$ to spend on such a laser, but likes Milo's box, get Jake's. You'll be taking a chance that it may break down in some way, but Jake is quite nice to deal with, and he WILL fix it and make it right. What happens if someone breaks a Milos laser(I dont know this so I am asking), will you fix it free Milos? Jake will even have a meter soon, to actually test the output.

6) Milos, you CANNOT sue Jake, it just won't work. This is the US, free enterprise abound, and face it.. you build a laser with a 3rd party enclosure, a PS3 sled and a homemeade driver(which is different than Jake's I am sure). Like I said, do you have a patent? I doubt it. What you make you take pride in yes, but so does he. He just wants the chance to compete with yours. BOTH of your lasers are built with the common knowledge of 50% of the members of this forum.

Jake is a good guy, just leave him alone. You each have your own kind of customer. The customers that want your lasers wont buy Jakes, because he is new and people know it. On eBay, there's nothing you can do either. Try justifying your price in your auction and you'll keep your buyers. I myself would NEVER pay what you ask for one, just knowing how it's built and that I can buid the exact same thing(or close enough) for at least $80-100 less.

I am sorry(and I tell ya what nobody better smack my rep for this), but these are facts. So, Jake copied you(to a point), but hey, this is the US.. Happens everyday. After all this is a hobby, and most of us know what the differences will be, and how to make the same thing anyhow.

I am in a CRT forum where everyone whines their hed off klike this. To tell you the truth, it does more harm than good for everyone involved. Every one of you that is griping should look at yourselves in the mirror. Milos, you are only stinging yourself in the ass by throwing THIS much of a stink about it.

Rant over...

I will never buy from Jake21 again, guys do not buy from him no more. His a kid.

jake21 said:

i never though people would be so pissed off, the way i see it's like every single one including me who built dorcy jr's and i did not see kenom rampaging about his laser he built. i found the box and every thing, built a driver for it ect... but u helped me but what info did u give me on how to make it ? because if u didnt want me/anyone to make it u shouldn't helped me out. damn i didnt no i would get every pissed just by making his laser. oh and for the guys who bough lasers from me, email me and ill give u the insurance numbers for thim.

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You know WHY Kenom isn't pissed ? Because it was MY IDEA. He came up with the idea for using a heat sink - but I was the one that came up with the idea to use a Dorcy Jr - and shared my findings with him, and the rest of the forum, as it should be. Jake21 - there is a huge difference between what you did, and what anyone else in this hobby has done. Kenom hired someone and did some great research on creating his power meters - from a (at that time) commonly found item on Ebay that I showed him ! I had even MONTHS prior to him creating the first functional power meter - sent one of those boards off to Hemlock Mike to see if he could make heads or tails out of it. Kenom successfully made the first functional "DIY" meter, and posted his plans for it, as well as his initial discovery - then everyone snatched up the boards from eBay, so that none are left now !

Jake21 - if Milos was ANYTHING like me (thank God that he is sooooo much nicer, and a better person !!!) you would not be allowed near Ebay for years to come, nor would your products !

The reason why the threads regarding Bluefusion blew up overnight (in one day) was because he was ignoring that thread - and hiding form the folks he owed money or products to. He has taken folk's money - and not produced anything in return other than drama. He refunded my money (the extra $40.00 I sent him) for 10 of the twenty drivers I am owed - and says he shipped out my stuff to me, but honestly, I will not believe anything about packages until I physically see it in front of me. Daniel has shipped me 3 packages on different weeks AFTER Bluefusion states he shipped (Daniel is in the U.K.) via normal mail, and they have all arrived safely - NADA from Australia.

Back to Jake (I think I answered everyone's concerns about OT crap in this thread now ?) I personally am disappointed in you (if that matters at all) you should have at least ASKED Milos if you could copy his stuff - dang, man...he MIGHT have said, YES !

Reading Daguins' post. Yes, Milos came up tith the idea.. BUT AFAIK there is NO patent, and Milos is using common knowledge and 3rd party product to build it. Like I said, there is no lawsuit here, just a bunch of destructive ranting. If Milos want to continue to sell at his price, then he should PROVE hs product against the new competition. If he wants to be the sole owner of the design, PATENT IT.. BUT that's going to be difficult using 3rd party products.

Both milos and jake are well known around here. Maybe Jake should give milos credit for the design, and note his differences. Milos needs to buck up and justify his pricing, and why his is worth more(besides common knowledge of both builder's experience), and BOTH sellers will be able to continue. This, if it continues will kill BOTH Jakes and Milos' sales, because of the way everyone is making such a huge stink about it. This IS the USA. Competition is the norm, and being a sour sort about it doesnt help.

Uhh just for your information Jake, I do have an issue with you copying my Dorcy's down to the heatsink and selling them for a fraction of the cost I do. I put a lot of love into each and every single laser I build and you make a mockery of it by selling the almost identical thing for a fraction of the cost and quality. Now it's not totally your fault that people are buying your cheaper laser and not mine any longer as folks are just basically cheap and would rather pay $70 for a cheaper version of a $150 laser. *(this is not a particular jab at any person I myself have purchased cheaper lasers when I don't have the funds)

It's impossible to continue to make quality products and sell them when there is a cheaper alternative around. Some folks are willing to fork over the extra money for a quality product, but the majority will choose a cheaper alternative. Laserglow makes awesome lasers. They are 2-3x the price of normal 200-500mw greens but they are top notch products and for the most part people acknowledge their superiority. I've not sold 1 dorcy Jr. since you started offering up the same thing for much cheaper.

i'm on jake21's side. he's a really nice guy and the auctions look different enough.

Glaserfan - not trying to start a war with you at all - and with that being said, you have stated your opinion, now stop trying to ram it down everyone's throats. This is a nice community, I myself recall when Jake21 knew NOTHING about lasers, and I have been patient with him in the past as well - hence the reason I am explaining this to you.

Milos does not need to justify anything - he created that design, and it was ripped off by Jake21, point blank. Screw patents - he is talking about common courtesy. WAAAAY back in 1996 when I first was looking at a carreer in IT - the field was FULL of people that would horde their knowledge, and would not teach anything to anyone. THAT IS CRAP. This forum, among others out there was founded on freedom - can Jake21 rip off someones ideas, and sell them as his own ? SURE HE CAN ! But, just because you can, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. The reason I brought up that whole "IT STORY" was because I have built my knowledge base around self teaching, and picking other people's brains ! If it were not for others helping me - I wouldn't be where I am today - and my philosophy is more of a teacher than a merchant - and I tend to gather friends around me with the same mindset - obviously, Jake21 is a student, and a merchant PERIOD. I have dealt with people like you, Glaserfan, in the past - bitching and moaning at me making a buck off of a group buy, but yet NOBODY stepped in when I put $4,000 of my own money on the line and got ripped off - just folks like you bitching. You should take a step back, and remove yourself from this bad situation before you make things even worse.