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Old 08-15-2009, 07:02 PM #17
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

That is a very nice looking host you have there!

Is there a possibility of getting the host in black CF? Also do you plan on producing other battery variants mainly CR123? 9v batteries are quite current limited.


Thanks
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:57 PM #18
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brtaman View Post
That is a very nice looking host you have there!

Is there a possibility of getting the host in black CF? Also do you plan on producing other battery variants mainly CR123? 9v batteries are quite current limited.


Thanks
brtaman
I don't have any black cf right now but it may be around in the future. As for using cr123's, the model in post #1 does accept cr123 and rcr123. As for the one that takes a 9v, the run time is actually not bad @ >500mah capacity, and now they have Li-poly 9v's with >500mah rating. The only 9v's I know of that are current limited are nimih's and nicad's.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:09 PM #19
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

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Originally Posted by Flaminpyro View Post
Too Cool, very unique I like the shape it looks like it is part of a ray gun or something like. Scopeguy will be wanting to see this. say is that driver ckt built on a silk screened fiberglass board ? or what ? I would be interested in one maby, Thanks for sharing !

Peace Pyro...
Thanks pyro. I'm not selling just the driver's alone unfortunately, I only have a few right now, the IC's kind of expensive and they aren't too easy to build.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:11 PM #20
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Very nice custom work there! Really cool to see something unique and different like this...

Sounds like a really nice driver too! Battery protection circuit built in huh?

Nice!
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:20 PM #21
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Thank you Jay, it always means a lot from you!
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Old 08-16-2009, 06:06 AM #22
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

I might be a bit hesitant to carry that on the street - if a cop saw you with that in your hand, he might be inclined to shoot first and ask questions later!

Anyway, I have been researching drivers lately, and I had some serious questions about that chip you are using.

'Um, did anybody take a CLOSE look at that data sheet?

The stuff at the top kinda reads like someone's recent description of 4x's as the "ultimate" diode that everybody wants!

But when you get down into the fine print, and look at the detailed specs...

According to the specs, specified load regulation is only guaranteed for output currents of under 250ma?

Operating above 200ma requires use of a larger, more expensive support component.

Max output current and conversion efficiency in "boost" mode also appears to vary quite a bit, based on operating conditions. In a different example on their web site, max output was 250ma. In many cases, efficiency drops like a rock after 100ma. And in all of the efficiency graphs that show the "less noisy" mode (the other mode generates a huge amount of switching noise and voltage swings that increase with current and would IMHO pbly not be safe for a laser diode), all of the lines "die" at about 250ma.

Unlike the spec sheet for something like the LM1117 (used by rkcstr, I believe), which discusses things like the amount of copper area on the circuit board for cooling, and heat sink size vs. maximum current, this data sheet has nothing about any of that. But that becomes clear when you look at the package info and realize, this chip doesn't appear to have any kind of heat sinking on it!

This appears to be a low-power device, designed primarily for converting battery power to the correct voltage to operate digital circuitry (such as 3.3V or 5V) like used in digital cameras.

Max output voltage according to the specs is also 5.5V, NOT 5.6.

So no way is this going to be good for 8x! Probably not enough to fully push a LTC either.

But I saved the best (or worst!) part for last!

Quote:
Wired according to the last schematic in the pdf. Adjustable output voltage and low noise.
(The following assumes the statement made by the seller above in post #7 is accurate)

The last schematic on the data sheet (Figure 3, pg. 9) is for the low-noise version of an adjustable VOLTAGE regulator.

NOT a current regulator. A frk'n voltage regulator!

(Given the design of this device (especially how the low noise mode is implemented), I don't know if it is even capable of being used as a current regulator. The data sheet does not indicate that it can)

A current regulator is the whole reason you normally buy a driver for - it's what keeps your laser diode from going into thermal runaway and self-destructing!

So, other than boosting the voltage enough to fire-up the laser, what you've basically got is a Kipkay laser!

Actually, maybe even worse! Follow me here...

When a laser diode starts to get warmer (say you've been holding down the button trying to line-up the beam with that damn match!), its resistance starts to drop. When that happens, it starts to draw more current.

(It's at this point that a driver normally saves your ass, by "backing-off" to keep the current in check, and preventing your diode from drawing more & more power and going into thermal runaway)

When resistance drops, if the current is held constant, the voltage drop across the diode goes down as well. (V=IR)

But a VOLTAGE regulator is going to see that and say -

"Hey, the voltage is going to drop below what it is suppose to be! I have to pump MORE current into the circuit, to keep the voltage level!"

Yep, that's right, when a voltage regulator sees your laser diode overheating, it feeds it MORE power!

This causes your overheated diode to get even HOTTER, which lowers its resistance even MORE, which causes the driver to feed it even MORE current to maintain the same voltage...

You can see where this is going. The laser and the voltage regulator are in a feedback loop, each accelerating the thermal runaway.

Think Star Trek "phasor set on overload", and you get the general idea!

That's probably why the warning about turning the volume up. With a voltage regulator, you can't run the diode at full power without risking destroying it due to thermal runaway.

Well, I guess now we know at least why they're shaped like hand grenades!

Also explains the lower power setting on that one. As well as the odd use of an externally accessible pot. A standard current regulator you could just set it (connected to a dummy load) and forget - it will now work with any PHR. But a voltage regulator, you would likely have to adjust it for that specific diode. And if/when you burned it out, have to re-tune it for the new diode (due to differences in diode efficiency causing different current draws for the same voltage), even if they were the same model diode. You would also have to adjust it with the laser running. An easy-access pot would be useful (if not required) in that case.

Hmm, perhaps buyer beware, methinks?
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:12 AM #23
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Quote:
Originally Posted by seoguy View Post
I might be a bit hesitant to carry that on the street - if a cop saw you with that in your hand, he might be inclined to shoot first and ask questions later!

Anyway, I have been researching drivers lately, and I had some serious questions about that chip you are using.

'Um, did anybody take a CLOSE look at that data sheet?

The stuff at the top kinda reads like someone's recent description of 4x's as the "ultimate" diode that everybody wants!

But when you get down into the fine print, and look at the detailed specs...

According to the specs, specified load regulation is only guaranteed for output currents of under 250ma?

Operating above 200ma requires use of a larger, more expensive support component.

Max output current and conversion efficiency in "boost" mode also appears to vary quite a bit, based on operating conditions. In a different example on their web site, max output was 250ma. In many cases, efficiency drops like a rock after 100ma. And in all of the efficiency graphs that show the "less noisy" mode (the other mode generates a huge amount of switching noise and voltage swings that increase with current and would IMHO pbly not be safe for a laser diode), all of the lines "die" at about 250ma.

Unlike the spec sheet for something like the LM1117 (used by rkcstr, I believe), which discusses things like the amount of copper area on the circuit board for cooling, and heat sink size vs. maximum current, this data sheet has nothing about any of that. But that becomes clear when you look at the package info and realize, this chip doesn't appear to have any kind of heat sinking on it!

This appears to be a low-power device, designed primarily for converting battery power to the correct voltage to operate digital circuitry (such as 3.3V or 5V) like used in digital cameras.

Max output voltage according to the specs is also 5.5V, NOT 5.6.

So no way is this going to be good for 8x! Probably not enough to fully push a LTC either.

But I saved the best (or worst!) part for last!



(The following assumes the statement made by the seller above in post #7 is accurate)

The last schematic on the data sheet (Figure 3, pg. 9) is for the low-noise version of an adjustable VOLTAGE regulator.

NOT a current regulator. A frk'n voltage regulator!

(Given the design of this device (especially how the low noise mode is implemented), I don't know if it is even capable of being used as a current regulator. The data sheet does not indicate that it can)

A current regulator is the whole reason you normally buy a driver for - it's what keeps your laser diode from going into thermal runaway and self-destructing!

So, other than boosting the voltage enough to fire-up the laser, what you've basically got is a Kipkay laser!

Actually, maybe even worse! Follow me here...

When a laser diode starts to get warmer (say you've been holding down the button trying to line-up the beam with that damn match!), its resistance starts to drop. When that happens, it starts to draw more current.

(It's at this point that a driver normally saves your ass, by "backing-off" to keep the current in check, and preventing your diode from drawing more & more power and going into thermal runaway)

When resistance drops, if the current is held constant, the voltage drop across the diode goes down as well. (V=IR)

But a VOLTAGE regulator is going to see that and say -

"Hey, the voltage is going to drop below what it is suppose to be! I have to pump MORE current into the circuit, to keep the voltage level!"

Yep, that's right, when a voltage regulator sees your laser diode overheating, it feeds it MORE power!

This causes your overheated diode to get even HOTTER, which lowers its resistance even MORE, which causes the driver to feed it even MORE current to maintain the same voltage...

You can see where this is going. The laser and the voltage regulator are in a feedback loop, each accelerating the thermal runaway.

Think Star Trek "phasor set on overload", and you get the general idea!

That's probably why the warning about turning the volume up. With a voltage regulator, you can't run the diode at full power without risking destroying it due to thermal runaway.

Well, I guess now we know at least why they're shaped like hand grenades!

Also explains the lower power setting on that one. As well as the odd use of an externally accessible pot. A standard current regulator you could just set it (connected to a dummy load) and forget - it will now work with any PHR. But a voltage regulator, you would likely have to adjust it for that specific diode. And if/when you burned it out, have to re-tune it for the new diode (due to differences in diode efficiency causing different current draws for the same voltage), even if they were the same model diode. You would also have to adjust it with the laser running. An easy-access pot would be useful (if not required) in that case.

Hmm, perhaps buyer beware, methinks?

Well I'm sorry you don't like my design. I just don't appreciate you bashing it. I think you may have mistakenly looked at some of the max710 info and not the 711. Also it clearly states, output 5v @ 500ma with an input of 3.6v, and with an input of 1.8v itís capable of 250ma @ 5v. The 710 is factory programmed specified at either 3v out or 5v out while the 711 is adjustable from 2.7v to 5.5v and mine reads an actual 5.6v out. As for it being a voltage regulator, yes it is, but if you think back to ohm's law then you will realize that a fixed voltage, say 5.6v, and a fixed resistance (determined by the pot) equals a given amperage and wattage thus regulating the output. The heat of your diode would NOT effect the output voltage or amperage; itís always going to be 5.6v and set the pot at 62 ohms for an output of 90.3ma at 5.6v. Do the math, 5.6v divided by 62ohmís equals 90.3maís. I will stand behind my design, I have tested it and it works great, nothing in the driver even gets warm I have used only over rated components for this circuit to be sure of this.
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:15 AM #24
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

i love the use of the texalium. i assume you built and formed the host yourself?

very, very cool. i'd be inclined to purchase, though i'm still doing a ton of research.
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Old 08-16-2009, 07:21 AM #25
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

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Originally Posted by Shogoki View Post
i love the use of the texalium. i assume you built and formed the host yourself?

very, very cool. i'd be inclined to purchase, though i'm still doing a ton of research.
Thank you, yes I did build it all myself. Here is a link to my tutorial Carbon Fiber Host Tutorial !!!
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:44 AM #26
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

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Well I'm sorry you don't like my design. I just don't appreciate you bashing it.
Every time that guy posts it pisses me off. Man this guy is a bigger A-Hole than...well...me! And that says a lot. Nothing but negative crap flows from his lips. I don't know why he is even here. He is the type who thinks he is never wrong and takes him self way to seriously. Don't waste your breath arguing with him.

BTW I think its cool and original.
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Old 08-16-2009, 12:19 PM #27
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Well, I got back from having a few beers with friends, but with one hand tied behind my back and even half-soused, I should be still able to deal with your post! LOL

>"Well I'm sorry you don't like my design..."

If this was just your design for your own private use, I would give you a "head's-up" on its serious flaws, but would not be so concerned.

But when you start selling this as some "high-tech improved driver" to OTHER ppl here at LPF, wait, let me quote your exact words here...

Quote:
"...a built in new driver which I have designed myself using only the best in state of the art electronics components"
then that becomes a whole different story.

Even worse, that you are charging ppl $35 for the driver portion of this (substantially more than even a top-of-the-line Dr. Lava Flex Drive), based on your false assertion that yours is so much better than everything else!

I don't know if you are just naive, or are deliberately trying to rip ppl off. But for anybody that buys this high-priced defective driver and expects it to protect their LD, the end result is the same either way - they got screwed!

Quote:
I think you may have mistakenly looked at some of the max710 info and not the 711.
No, I looked at both. They both share the same data sheet/specs, the 710 simply has two fixed-value resistors built-in to the chip to provide two fixed voltages.

Quote:
while the 711 is adjustable from 2.7v to 5.5v and mine reads an actual 5.6v out.
I have no doubt that it is possible to select resistors to get it to operate outside of its specifications. But getting what is in essence a "safety device" for your diode to operate outside of its specified safe regulating range IMHO makes about as much sense as buying a pair of "Blue Blockers" from a late-night infomercial to use as laser goggles with your new BDR!

Quote:
Also it clearly states, output 5v @ 500ma...
Like I said, the top of the data sheet read like a used car salesman telling you the car has a top speed of 250MPH (out of the back of a C-130 without a parachute!) The actual details and performance graphs farther down show the actual performance.

All of the specs I quoted in my post came from the data sheet YOU posted, and/or Maxim's web site.

By the way, even the manufacturer's own web site says that this device is designed for things like AA alkaline-powered handheld devices and digital cameras. In fact, they specifically say Digital STILL Cameras - apparently, it doesn't have enough "umph" to power a pocket camcorder! LOL

But if it was just a case of being a low-powered current regulator, while not strong enough to drive higher-powered laser diodes, it could still have some use for low-end lasers like PHRs.

But as you plainly admit...

Quote:
As for it being a voltage regulator, yes it is
That statement just confirms all of my worst fears / concerns as expressed in the later portion of my post above.

Quote:
but if you think back to ohm's law...
I am quite familiar with that, in fact I quoted the formula in my post - that is in fact what causes the destruction of a hot laser diode without a current regulating driver!

Quote:
and a fixed resistance (determined by the pot)
ah, there is your mistake. The resistance is NOT fixed!

While the ratio of R1 to R2 in the schematic you indicated you are using, controls the reference voltage into pin FB (which in turn controls the output voltage the MAX711 tries to maintain), it does NOT control the CURRENT, because as you so correctly pointed-out, this design is a VOLTAGE regulator, NOT a current regulator.

You are also correct that the current across the output is governed by Ohm's law, based on the voltage, as well as the total resistance between the OUT pin and ground. This includes the combined resistance of R1 & R2 (as they are in series between the output and ground), and as you indicated, their value is (relatively) fixed.

HOWEVER, you FORGOT to consider that this resistance of the load across the output ALSO includes the resistance across the laser diode itself, which is NOT fixed, but CHANGES with the operating conditions/temp of the laser diode!

The resistance of the diode and of the fixed resistors are in parallel across the output. The formula for calculating the total resistance of resistors in parallel is as follows -

(Rx * Ry) / (Rx + Ry)

So if the diode gets warm and its resistance goes down, the voltage regulator has to provide more current to keep the voltage even at 5.6.

Because the resistance across a laser diode varies with operating conditions (and even worse, goes down and hence draws more current when it gets hot!), this is why a voltage regulator cannot be reliably used to protect a laser.

While trying to do a search on LPF right now is a bit problematic with the recent changes in URLs, a check of Google revealed the following quote from an impeccable laser reference -

Quote:
The LM317, in this configuration, is used as a current regulator which is required by laser diodes due to their very low internal resistances. Internal resistances across laser diode junctions easily allow much more current to pass than what they are rated resulting in a damaged laser diode junction and instantly making the laser diode an expensive LED.
This is from Frothy Chimp's web site, who works in the commercial laser industry, and is one of the leading experts on commercial diode and DPSS laser designs here at LPF, and quite possibly worldwide.

If you don't know who he is - ask.

If you regulate voltage rather than current, a hot diode will reduce its resistance and draw more and more current at that same voltage until it self-destructs!

This fact is why popular driver designs like DDL, rkcstr, etc., are all designed to regulate CURRENT rather than voltage.

Otherwise, your driver does NOT protect the laser from excess current and is basically a KipKay in fancy dress and an extra $35 price tag!

Your HOST looks good - throw a Flex in there and you might have something. But don't ruin it by ripping ppl off selling a defective product!
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Old 08-16-2009, 12:44 PM #28
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Junkie, if you want to argue the technical merits of my post, and explain how Daedal and rkcstr and Dr. Lava and Frothy Chimp are all WRONG, and hooking a constant-voltage regulator to an LD and forget about worrying about current is REALLY the better approach, then go right ahead.

But if you just want to personally insult me and/or to try to pick a fight like your post above, then go take your "schitck" and "GIF" meter somewhere else - I'm tired of it - and I'm not the only one.
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:09 PM #29
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

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Originally Posted by Tech_Junkie View Post
Every time that guy posts it pisses me off. Man this guy is a bigger A-Hole than...well...me! And that says a lot. Nothing but negative crap flows from his lips. I don't know why he is even here. He is the type who thinks he is never wrong and takes him self way to seriously. Don't waste your breath arguing with him.

BTW I think its cool and original.

Thanks for looking out Tech_Junkie. Advice taken, I won't waste my time. But I will say this, if anyone is interested in this item don't worry about the driver killing your diode, this seoguy has admittedly been drinking and thinks he knows.

I certainly don't intend to rip anyone off, EVER! And I will ALWAYS make it right for someone purchasing anything from me.
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:44 PM #30
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Quote:
Seoguy, basically a KipKay in fancy dress and an extra $35 price tag!
Do you even know it's a boost driver? By the way the output voltage is determined by two resistors I have selected according to the formula given on the datasheet (R1=R2 [(Vout/Vref)-1] , where Vref=1.25v) R1=340k and r2=100k doing the math gives 5.5v out (mine is 0.1 above). R1 is between F/B and the out pin while R2 is between F/B and ground, setting the output voltage fixed. Adding resistance directly after this, between the output and ground will not change the voltage delivered by the regulator. Since I have the pot connected to the fixed voltage output I then can in turn control the load delivered their after to the diode. It would NOT matter how much current the driver is trying to draw to keep the voltage fixed at 5.6, as long as it stays at 5.6 and there is a stable resistance (pot) to regulate what the diode would see. How do you not understand that seoguy?

I'm done giving lessons!
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:22 PM #31
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

My god, what happened to this place?! Half a year ago this was one of the most constructive and friendly forums an internet browser could find. Now it is on the level of 4chan, with unnecessary drama and an all around crap attitude.

seoguy is right, looking at the datasheet and your proposed config, there is nothing limiting current. Only options are 1.5A or 0.8A. Diode must be current limited and NOT voltage limited. This is the primary reason Vin in a linear driver is not a critical value within limits. A LM317 driver will work with a Vin of 12+ to drive a diode with a Vf of 3.5 (even taking account the drop of ~2.25, we are still left with a possibility of 10v) the excess is in then turn turned into heat on the semiconductor, this is because the diode is getting the current it is happy with and it is "taking" the voltage is requires. Another fact is that changing current input changes the forward voltage of a diode. Again as seoguy said diodes need to be current limited.

How about instead of attacking him you ask him for advice???
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Last edited by brtaman; 08-16-2009 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:40 AM #32
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Default Re: FS: Blu-Bullet Mini Carbon! NEW burning blu ray!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brtaman View Post
My god, what happened to this place?! Half a year ago this was one of the most constructive and friendly forums an internet browser could find. Now it is on the level of 4chan, with unnecessary drama and an all around crap attitude.

seoguy is right, looking at the datasheet and your proposed config, there is nothing limiting current. Only options are 1.5A or 0.8A. Diode must be current limited and NOT voltage limited. This is the primary reason Vin in a linear driver is not a critical value within limits. A LM317 driver will work with a Vin of 12+ to drive a diode with a Vf of 3.5 (even taking account the drop of ~2.25, we are still left with a possibility of 10v) the excess is in then turn turned into heat on the semiconductor, this is because the diode is getting the current it is happy with and it is "taking" the voltage is requires. Another fact is that changing current input changes the forward voltage of a diode. Again as seoguy said diodes need to be current limited.

How about instead of attacking him you ask him for advice???
How about seoguy writing it just like you did instead of the obvious ego trip? Unnecessary drama is an understatement for his post. Who was attacking who here?
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