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Old 05-01-2012, 05:44 AM   #1
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Talking Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Since I joined the forum in 2007, one thing has plagued the red laser build. This
not only applies to the handheld, but also the labby.. -Neg grounds

Now many of us like red, and when we build one, are subject to limitations, mainly driver variety.
Many of the drivers, we use will not work with a red unless the diodes are electrically isolated.
But in isolating the diode electrically, also impedes the flow of heat into the heatsink.

In turn you get to use you favorite driver, but not have the benefit of a solid thermal connection.


What I have done is take a standard LOC and various other red diodes with a -neg ground, and
re-route the -neg lead wires to the unused pin. The lead is then soldered and you have a neutral ground
diode


Turning this > into this >

Considering what powers the average builder runs their diodes at, you want to flow as much
heat off as quickly as possible... This counts even more when you spend extra on a copper
heatsink, and have to isolate the mount. Its a waste.


I will be offering this service to anybody interested. Diodes with a can must be de-canned
in order to perform this. LCC diodes as well as some other reds require an internal 3rd pin
extension in order to re-route the ground.


Pics will be added shortly of before and after..


All diodes will be tested before and after, and any damages covered. In other words, I break it, I buy it.
I have done this proceedure to about 50 diodes To gain a good solid grasp and success of each step..

Note, I dont accept diodes already mounted, too much room for error getting them out of the mount
without damaging.


Pros:
-Better thermal transfer
-Wider variety of drivers ex. boost drivers with a single 1.5V alkaline
-Isolates for use in arrays, and RGV setups
-Makes your diode a little more unique




Pricing:
-Neutral grounding open-can, 5.6 / 3.8mm- 10$
-De-canning-5$
-Internal 3rd pin extension (LCC diodes or PHR)- 5$


Message me for payment, and post any questions you may have


*EDIT

Teaser video.. This was one of the first diodes I did this to. The idea in
this vid was to get the ground line prepped, but does not contain the soldering.
I will have to make another video to add.

To give an idea of the scale, this was at 30x magnification, with the cam in macro,
and a 1.5~2x optical zoom. The razor used to clip the lead is a standard medical grade scalpel.
I added some music so you don't have to listen to me repeatedly hold and releasing my breath lol.



Also note, you only see one pin in the video.. That diode was a LCC. In a normal
LOC, both pins are long and do not require an extension..
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

I'm unfamiliar with most of the current drivers and kits that are available but I don't remember ever having a problem with - case diodes. My favorite driver was the flexdrive and I've built many red lasers with them no problem.
In fact - if I remember correctly - the flexdrive was most convenient and originally intended for red diodes that were case -. I even would make my case neutral diodes like the 405nm diodes case - by joining the - and case pin because that configuration was most convenient.

The diodes I had trouble finding drivers for were 808nm since they are case positive.

Maybe I have it backwards but I am also not up to date on current red laser diodes... or any diodes newer than the A140 type for that matter.


BTW, awesome that you have successfully done it! Perhaps some pictures could clarify my confusion.
Good work as always!
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

MY GOD!!!!

THAT'S UNREAL!

SWEET MOTHER OF ALL AWESOMENESS!!!!
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Yeah I must say this is pretty damn presicion work.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Quote:
Originally Posted by RA_pierce View Post
I'm unfamiliar with most of the current drivers and kits that are available but I don't remember ever having a problem with - case diodes. My favorite driver was the flexdrive and I've built many red lasers with them no problem.
In fact - if I remember correctly - the flexdrive was most convenient and originally intended for red diodes that were case -. I even would make my case neutral diodes like the 405nm diodes case - by joining the - and case pin because that configuration was most convenient.

The diodes I had trouble finding drivers for were 808nm since they are case positive.

Maybe I have it backwards but I am also not up to date on current red laser diodes... or any diodes newer than the A140 type for that matter.


BTW, awesome that you have successfully done it! Perhaps some pictures could clarify my confusion.
Good work as always!
Thats just it, you are confined to a particular driver.. A build can now be done with
a boost of your choice and an alkaline or rechargeable. Many of the buck regulators cannot share ground etc.

Even the AMC drivers are neg- side and cause issues unless you can fit them in the tail cap
and regulate the neg before it enters the host body. Another example is array builds like
member andycon always posts.. The reds are mounted in some thermally restrictive material.. wasteful.
Even if it conducts well, you cant beat a metal on metal contact.



Quote:
Originally Posted by foulmist View Post
MY GOD!!!!

THAT'S UNREAL!

SWEET MOTHER OF ALL AWESOMENESS!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by yobresal View Post
Yeah I must say this is pretty damn presicion work.
These were my baby steps, I have other things in the works that will knock your socks off

Its all hush until I perfect it
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Right. I'm not trying to discredit the idea in case that is how it seemed. I was just wondering why you would do this for a LOC if most drivers are designed to work with them anyway.
For some case + 808nm and 635nm diodes this could come in very handy.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

You must have really steady hands! If I tried something like that it would end badly.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Quote:
Originally Posted by RA_pierce View Post
Right. I'm not trying to discredit the idea in case that is how it seemed. I was just wondering why you would do this for a LOC if most drivers are designed to work with them anyway.
For some case + 808nm and 635nm diodes this could come in very handy.
I get what you're saying, but what drivers are you referring to?

Many drivers are meant for case+. You can use either type now with
the diode. 532pens, case+, ax2002 DX buck driver needs isolated neg
from the drivers output, AMC7135 low drop out, output must be
isolated from the host body. the list goes on.

Thats why people were getting excited with the new 635's 300 and 500mW
diodes, they are also case neutral.. Its also why people complain about the
PHR 805's, unlike the 803T they are not case neutral.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Warne View Post
You must have really steady hands! If I tried something like that it would end badly.
When I first started this, I was at a few cups of coffee per day.. This quickly
became an issue. No caffeine for a few days before I break out the microscope
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

yeah case neutral is waaay better than case negative!

I kinda hate case negative/positive diodes!

case neutral allows for better flexibility when choosing your driver.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Quote:
Originally Posted by foulmist View Post
yeah case neutral is waaay better than case negative!

I kinda hate case negative/positive diodes!

case neutral allows for better flexibility when choosing your driver.
Exactly... For me its always been a headache. I cant stand DVD writer
reds just because of the lack in options.

On a side not, you cannot do this with 808's.. At least with the ones
I have seen (many) they are +pos ground but there are no leads to
re-route. Instead the +pos enters at the base of the chip. But again
there are tons of drivers that support it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTR View Post
You think case/ld negative is a pain try finding a good driver for a case/LD positive like the sanyo 635's. That was a pain. Great work by the way.
Thanks

Why not use a driver for 808 and bump up the input voltage a bit?
If I get my hands on one, I will be sure to try re-routing it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Man that macro video is amazing....
I'm impressed....
Nice prices on that re-routing service and a no risk
guarantee to boot...

I think I know who to call if I ever need some brain
surgery...


Jerry
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Very impressive... I should send you the two LOC's I have that I knocked the wires off, the PHR805 that I twisted the pins off, and several others! - The advantage is that they are already dead so you don't have to buy them if you wreak them..
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

good job... lets hope JLSE has a good women, one that will let him keep at his workshop.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

How is it possible ? With those hands you can begin a new career in surgery.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

do you offer discount for high volume orders?
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Diode Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
Man that macro video is amazing....
I'm impressed....
Nice prices on that re-routing service and a no risk
guarantee to boot...

I think I know who to call if I ever need some brain
surgery...


Jerry
I smell burnt toast (old canadian commercial humor)

It takes a steady hand, but what blows me away is when you take your eyes
away from the scope, and you see what you were just working on lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUS View Post
Very impressive... I should send you the two LOC's I have that I knocked the wires off, the PHR805 that I twisted the pins off, and several others! - The advantage is that they are already dead so you don't have to buy them if you wreak them..
I can do repairs as well, it just depends on the extent of the damage. If leads are
broken, depending where it gets complicated..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post
good job... lets hope JLSE has a good women, one that will let him keep at his workshop.
Let me?? Its more like

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blord View Post
How is it possible ? With those hands you can begin a new career in surgery.
Wait till you see the soldering.. Looks like im using a sledge hammer

You'd be surprised of what you can accomplish given the oppoutunity to try
and put some hours into it. I was shocked with some of the things I was able to
pull off under the microscope

Quote:
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do you offer discount for high volume orders?
We could work something out, pm me with details...
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

You're right. I was going to mention the AMC7135 regulators. I forgot that I was using them for some 2W 808s a while back.
I was under the impression that most of the linear regulators were being made for negative ground diodes (like the old rkcstr driver and others based on the "DDL" circuit). Perhaps that is not the case?
I've been away from building for too long.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

The rkcstr, DDL, are good drivers, but with say the DDL you have all that heat
and running over 400mA becomes very wasteful. Low drop outs are good, but
again you end up limited on choice.

You take a neutral ground red and a DX buck driver, you can adjust the mA
without big resistors (all SMD), and you can run it of 12V if you'd like, nice
and efficient.

Also you can use a boost driver and run of a single NiCad or the like. Neutral grounding
the LD just opens doors allowing for use with drivers that could not be used before.

Another example and more of the reason I started doing this is the handheld
RGV im working on.. The 405 is neutral so no problem there, but there was
conflict between the 532 module and the red.. The 532 using a +gnd and the
red with a -gnd. Now the host can be case + to accommodate the green, and
no conflict from the 650 or 405nm..

It just makes life that much easier
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

I was wondering how in earth are you going to solder the 4 wires of the M140 diode but then in a clear moment you don't need to rewire the M140.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

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Originally Posted by Blord View Post
I was wondering how in earth are you going to solder the 4 wires of the M140 diode
but then in a clear moment you don't need to rewire the M140.


You dont know the half of it... In some situations, 4 wires is a God send.
Example, this 635nm



This was a transplant of a multi watt 635nm from a cmount onto a 5.6mm mount.
All leads were cut, and shortly after, attached to its new host. 12 leads for one chip
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

This is amazing! This will make using AMC7135 drivers for 650nm much much much easier!

Great job! I can't wait to see how this all turns out!
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

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Originally Posted by Fretwrecker94 View Post
This is amazing! This will make using AMC7135 drivers for 650nm much much much easier!

Great job! I can't wait to see how this all turns out!
The neutral grounding as a service is already available.. Ive been doing
this for a while and on many diodes of my own with no problems..

I will also be offering diodes already modified soon.. The problem
with this as a service is the shipping cost if you only have one
diode to modify.

Perhaps I can do a GB sort of arrangement and have all the diodes
from all USA participants send their diodes to one trusted USA member, then
ship the lot to me for the work. It would get the shipping cost right down, and
can be sent across the boarder with tracking and insurance.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

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Originally Posted by JLSE View Post
You dont know the half of it... In some situations, 4 wires is a God send.
Example, this 635nm



This was a transplant of a multi watt 635nm from a cmount onto a 5.6mm mount.
All leads were cut, and shortly after, attached to its new host. 12 leads for one chip
HOLY CRUD man you make me jealous I have the microscope to do that but not the patients +1

a soldering iron tip is so big what do you use to reattach the wires? Another laser
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: Diode Repair & Services / Internal Ground Re-Routing / LPC, LCC, SMOC, PHR 805's

Dont think ill be soldering with a laser under a microscope anytime soon

Getting the microscope was the easy part of my initial work.. Patience is a must
but there is a whole lot more that needs to come into play.. One of them being the tools
to do this.

One slip and stuff breaks!
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