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Old 10-01-2009, 01:49 PM #33
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
The AixiZ 405 glass lens is even less than that Igor...

Miloš tested and compared it here:
Jayrob VS. LarryFDFW AR lens VS. Aixiz standards

Only a 5.4% increase vs AixiZ acrylic with back opened...

My 405-G-1 glass lens on the other hand is between 26% and 28% increase vs AixiZ acrylic with the back opened!
What do you mean, back opened ???

Imho, Larry, IgorT, Jayrob, you guys might get more lense customers if you don't charge 50$ a lense !!!!!!!!!

PS: I think I'm in for the group buy. Assuming the whole thing doesn't cost me too much.

JUST got a job. Even though its $10/hour....
Can't wait to get my CCIE. Then I can get major $$ and make all the lasers I want
Better work my ass of for now lol.


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Old 10-01-2009, 04:55 PM #34
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
The AixiZ 405 glass lens is even less than that Igor...

Miloš tested and compared it here: Only a 5.4% increase vs AixiZ acrylic with back opened...
I see... So it's practically worthless compared to regular acrylics!

It's a BAD lens! Even their red coated lenses have a higher improovement than that! I find 8% with the all-threaded one altho the bottom threaded one had ZERO improovement over acrylics.

The only good red lens i could find for cheap was the AR coated acrylic, which i LOVE to use in cheaper reds!



Quote:
My 405-G-1 glass lens on the other hand is between 26% and 28% increase vs AixiZ acrylic with the back opened!
I know, Jay, i was talking AVERAGES. My Medium Custom lens produces a wavelength and beam profile dependant increase of 16-20% compared to acrylics..

I recall finding an 7.5-8% differences between your lens and the Medium Custom Lens, depending on the direction of calculation.


Basically, when the Medium will increase the power by 18%, your lens will increase the power by 26%... When the medium increases by 20%, yours increases by 28%! Hence, the 8% difference....


But the variations were consistent with the wavelength of the diode in question, at all times...


I discovered early on during the Custom Lens project, that with my short FL custom lens (v8) the increases vary A LOT depending on diode wavelength!

- Short wl. diodes get blocked much harder in acrylics, so the increase with glass will be higher!
- Longer wl. diodes get blocked MUCH less in acrylics, so the increase with glass will be lower.

In addition to that, the increase will vary by the beam profile of the diode in question!

- Diodes with flatter beams (= more power in the fast axis) will get increased more by high NA glass, because acrylics have a NA of only 0.3 while my short FL glass has a NA of 0.55+!
- Diodes with rounder beams will get increased less by high NA lenses, because acrylics block less with diodes that have less power in the fast axis and more in the slow one (= rounder beam aka better aspect ratio)....

I always sorted my diodes by wavelength, so i always tested lenses with all diode models of both sides of the wavelength spectrum!


Diodes with VERY long wavelengths can get increased as little as 23% with short FL glass, like your lens or my short FL custom!

Diodes with VERY short wavelengths can get increased as much as 43% with short FL / high NA lenses, like yours or my short FL custom!

I wish that diode was still alive, because i could measure the medium lens on it!


But i do have a near UV PHR where i will repeat this experiment...


This is why i said the testing is not complete yet and that the ranges still need to be established properly...



But just an example. I have this freak GGW, it has VERY high efficiency and a VERY long wavelength - it's a v3 sled diode! The best i could find!


And on this diode, my medium increases the power by only 16%, while your lens does 24%! Again an 8% difference.


Since both our lenses have the same type of broadband coating, the wavelength dependent increase will always have the same difference between the two of them!

The only variation can come from different aspect ratio, where your lens can bring a little more out, if the beam is VERY FLAT!

My Medium Custom lens cuts some of the fast axis off, resulting in a rounded off beam, but not flat....A short FL / high NA lens will always bring it all out, resulting in a beam the shape of the diod's output... Often flat with BluRays....



So, what i need to do now is get my Medium mounted in metal by you, with the largest possible back apperture you can create!

I want to see if the lens can bring more out, since it's a 7mm lens, while my mounting only allows for 5mm of that to be used...


If that doesn't help increase the power, i need to find lenses with two other NA values i have in my mind....

One of the two would still create a rounded off beam, the higher NA would probably already be flat altho i could be wrong.. Maybe some rounding off would still be done.

But the real question is the FL, because the "splatter" depends ONLY on FL.

This is the reason that the medium has minimum splatter which gets hidden in the glare, and even when looking for it, one can hardly find it! It's all about FLs when it comes to the side projection called splatter.

If the FL is long enou, the splatter does not go too far away from the beam and is hidden by the glare of the spot tho...


This is why i like the medium custom lens, it produces a clean spot and beam, nicelly round, less volume than AixiZ acrylics but not too thin to focus excptionally well for great burning - better than with my short FL / high NA custom lens, which produces the same results as yours, especially after proper mounting...


Otherwise, i'll just write my manufacturer, tell them what prices we get for other lenses, and see if they would give any discount for my medium test buy!

If they DO, that would be awesome!
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:57 PM #35
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabish View Post
What do you mean, back opened ???

Imho, Larry, IgorT, Jayrob, you guys might get more lense customers if you don't charge 50$ a lense !!!!!!!!!
You're talking as if i had a choice!
My lens costs $50 unmounted in sample quantity!

I fear they will charge me the SAME price for the mini-GB!


Jay on the other hand, has to mount his by machining a super-thin aluminum spacer, and then the lens nut without damaging them, from both sides, which is a LOT of work!


P.S. Back opened acrylic means that you pull the back plate out.
I also machine the back plate into a ring and put it back in...
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:56 PM #36
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT View Post
You're talking as if i had a choice!
My lens costs $50 unmounted in sample quantity!

I fear they will charge me the SAME price for the mini-GB!


Jay on the other hand, has to mount his by machining a super-thin aluminum spacer, and then the lens nut without damaging them, from both sides, which is a LOT of work!


P.S. Back opened acrylic means that you pull the back plate out.
I also machine the back plate into a ring and put it back in...
Ahhh. Damn the suppliers for charging you guys soo much for the lenses !!!!!!!
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:00 PM #37
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

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Ahhh. Damn the suppliers for charging you guys soo much for the lenses !!!!!!!
I have to say that I keep seeing tons of posts from you about trying to get stuff for really cheap...

If you can get us a better lens deal, then I'll be the first one to buy some from you. How's that?

But you'll have to go 'out of pocket' just for the research and development you know...
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:32 PM #38
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
I have to say that I keep seeing tons of posts from you about trying to get stuff for really cheap...

If you can get us a better lens deal, then I'll be the first one to buy some from you. How's that?

But you'll have to go 'out of pocket' just for the research and development you know...
Hahaha. Sorry if I offended in any way.

I just used to think you guys found sum lenses from sum secret place dirt cheap and were overpricing em rofl

If you had to put money into RnD, and the suppliers are really pricey, plus it's hard work to mod them to fit, then you have full rights to sell them however you want

And yes I am trying to get stuff for cheap. Cuz I'm broke as hell (hell, today I made 26$ Canadian after taxes/bus fair No joke)....

EDIT: Btw, check my last post. I was only blaming the suppliers for charging you guys so much. Wasn't blaming anyone here.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:12 AM #39
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Hey Tabish...

I also have seen you trying to get stuff for next to nothing...

Doing a little research on the forum on the lens issues would have brought
you up to speed as to the prices for raw lenses and the build times and
materials involved in these High Quality/Low Loss lenses.
These are not brand new lenses that just came out yesterday...
The data is there... they have been around for quite a few months...

Jerry
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:28 AM #40
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Check this out. Bluray drive at newegg for $160

Newegg.com - LG Black 8X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 6X BD-ROM 2MB Cache 8X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk Model WH08LS20K - Blu-Ray Burners
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:11 PM #41
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
Doing a little research on the forum on the lens issues would have brought you up to speed as to the prices for raw lenses and the build times and materials involved in these High Quality/Low Loss lenses.

These are not brand new lenses that just came out yesterday...
The data is there... they have been around for quite a few months..
I think i had the first custom (made to specs) lenses made back in June last year!
I had to order 30pcs minimum, for them to precision machine them, and then AR coat them for 405nm and broadband....

Problem was, they are spherical lenses! Completelly useless for lasers!

Now that was a PAINFUL EXPENSIVE mistake, which almost put the Custom Lens project to an end!

They increased the power by 15%, but they created ugly projections all around the "spot"! The reason for this is that spherical lenses do not have the same FL over their entire diameter!

That's why we need aspherics, but those cost a fortune to precision-machine...


That was a VERY stupid mistake on my part, it lost me $700 in useless lenses. I still have most of the 30 here..

The lenses we are using now are all aspherics, now it's just about tweaking FLs without lowering NA's to reduce the "splatter" as much as possible, while keeping the power high!



Otherwise, guys, if you're interested in lenses, check out LightPath's online catalog!

They have almost ANY lens one could ever dream of, but when i asked for prices, they told me 68 EURO a piece! (= $98 USD )
They said "we can talk about the price when it comes to larger quantities", but they are usually thinking about 10.000+!!
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:41 PM #42
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Oh snap. Ok I see lol

Just wondering. The "useless" spherical lenses you have sitting around. Do they give a higher power output compared to aixiz 405 glass ????

Can you post a pic of what the dot / splash looks like ?


Also, does newegg give discount on mini-bulk order for those drives ?? They are 160$ already. Cheaper than the $175 here....
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:38 AM #43
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabish View Post
Oh snap. Ok I see lol

Just wondering. The "useless" spherical lenses you have sitting around. Do they give a higher power output compared to aixiz 405 glass ????
Improperly mounted (in plastic lens nuts which reduce the NA) they result in a 15-17% increase compared to acrylics... Again, depending on wl. and aspect ratio of the diode...

Properly mounted the increase would be much higher, but MUCH of it gets wasted in spherical abberations...

A VERY expensive lesson, basically...



Quote:
Can you post a pic of what the dot / splash looks like ?
I think i did once in the Custom Lens feeler thread, but i can do so again...

What happens is that only the very middle of the diode's output goes forward as a beam, but the sides go appart, forming "wings"!

EDIT: Altho "wings" are not the correct expression...
What happens with spherical lenses is that they don't have the exact same FL from center to the edge - the FL is gradualy dropping outwards from the center to the edge...
(aspherics on the other hand do have the same FL over their entire diameter)

Because of this, the spherical lens would produce a high power beam, but with a projection of the sides of the diode's output around the spot.

The little diode-caused splatter with short FL lenses is nothing in comparison to the crap the spherical leenses produce around the spot!


Quote:
Also, does newegg give discount on mini-bulk order for those drives ?? They are 160$ already. Cheaper than the $175 here....
$175 is the WORST CASE PRICE!

I did say i'd try to get them for less!
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Old 10-03-2009, 07:57 AM #44
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

Add my name to the group buy list please. Thx.
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Old 10-03-2009, 02:34 PM #45
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

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Add my name to the group buy list please. Thx.
Did so.. With you, that makes 10 diodes (including the two torture candidates)...



Otherwise, i think we should put an upper limit on this guys!
I'm gonna go nuts if i have to plot 20 diodes in high resolution...


I think 10 (+ 2 to be murdered) should already be enough....

So two more interests and that's it?


What do you guys think?
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Old 10-03-2009, 02:42 PM #46
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

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Originally Posted by IgorT View Post
Did so.. With you, that makes 10 diodes (including the two torture candidates)...



Otherwise, i think we should put an upper limit on this guys!
I'm gonna go nuts if i have to plot 20 diodes in high resolution...


I think 10 (+ 2 to be murdered) should already be enough....

So two more interests and that's it?


What do you guys think?
It's kinda up to you, since you are doing all the hard work. IMO, I think we should wait a couple weeks to see if the 12x's come out and then the 8x drives reduce in price.
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:17 PM #47
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

did you get my last email Igor? well.. i guess i'm just waiting for you buddy.
figured you're really busy.. so... lemme know
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Old 10-04-2009, 03:58 AM #48
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Default Re: 8x Drive Mini "GB"....

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Originally Posted by bryce007 View Post
It's kinda up to you, since you are doing all the hard work. IMO, I think we should wait a couple weeks to see if the 12x's come out and then the 8x drives reduce in price.
12x may be out in a couple of weeks ???

If so, I would rather wait too...


Hey Igor, as for the upper limit. 10 seems low. How much will we get them for each assuming we order 10. Then again, you are doing the hard work and I have no idea how much time you put into testing / piv plot etc...

Up to you.
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