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When can we expect 16x Blu-ray?

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rpaloalto

rpaloalto

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Just wondering when we might start seeing 16x 405nm diodes.

If I recall it took about 8 months for the jump from 6x to 8x, or at least until we started to hear industry talk, of the 8x.
Then the jump from 8x to 12x was fast. It seemed like only 4 months. IgorT was still doing the 8x murder experiments, when we got the 12x.

I have searched the web and have found no talk of a 16x BDR. Is it possible they may have maxed out speed wise?
When burning at 12x, thats a lot of data moving, wondering if thats is a limitation.
CD-R and DVD-R have both maxed out, and we wont see higher speeds from them.
 
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Seoul_lasers

Seoul_lasers

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Funny thing, as I have seen on nichia's website the development for 800mW-1W 405nm laser diodes. The answer is probably, yes. The reason is that with USBIII around the corner the data transfer rates are going to be that much higher. I can see the need for more write speed at data rates close to 500MB/second.
Logically I see the need for more write speed shortly.
 
LazyBeam

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rpaloalto said:
I have searched the web and have found no talk of a 16x BDR. Is it possible they may have maxed out speed wise?
When burning at 12x, thats a lot of data moving, wondering if thats is a limitation.
CD-R and DVD-R have both maxed out, and we wont see higher speeds from them.
Click to expand...
IIRC, isn't the limitation on CD-R the disk itself... not the diodes or data rate?
The disk can spin so fast before it becomes unstable and records poorly.
I'm not sure about DVD-R though.

We have to remember, that data transfer is as much a componet of the sled/diode delivering energy as it is the disk receiving that energy in a predictable fashion.
 
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shawnk1994

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Theres no way they have maxed out there speeds already. Bc the DVD-R have 16x so why wouldnt a blu ray eventually get the same??
 
LazyBeam

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Because 16X DVD speeds are not equivalent to 16X Bluray speeds.
16X is just a unitless multiplier for the base data write rate for that unique technology.

1X BD-R is 4.5 MB/s... 12X is current max speed... >10,000 rpm spindle speed
1X DVD is 1.35 MB/s... 24X is current max speed... >12500 rpm spindle speed
1X CD-R is 150 kB/s... 52X is current max speed... ~10000 rpm spindle speed

You can see that even though the multiplier is the same between different generations the data rate is phenominally higher in favor of the newer generation. It would appear that current drive designs for all generations of optical disks and spindle drives limit the max disk speed to around 10k-12k rpm before disk instability becomes a problem. Heck, even in high performance hard drives the purpose built platters only spin 15000 rpm. FYI, CD formfactor disks can only reach about 25,000 rpm before literally exploding... having long surpassed the necessary stability for data transfer?

As you can see above, the 12X BD-R is already flirting with that limit. I'd imagine if/when 16X BD-R comes out that the disk's phisical limitations will be reached. My guess is that the 12X BD-R will become the standard maximum write speed and a few companies will produce 16X drives... similar to CD's sactioned 48X limit with some companies opting to produce 52X.
 
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Lumify

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You guys have it all wrong. The main reason these companies are developing these higher powers is for multiple layered Blu-ray discs, not write speed. Once technology develops to allow for multiple layers, we'll be able to store multiple times more on a disc than what we are right now.
 
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shawnk1994

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LazyBeam said:
Because 16X DVD speeds are not equivalent to 16X Bluray speeds.
16X is just a unitless multiplier for the base data write rate for that unique technology.

1X BD-R is 4.5 MB/s... 12X is current max speed... >10,000 rpm spindle speed
1X DVD is 1.35 MB/s... 24X is current max speed... >12500 rpm spindle speed
1X CD-R is 150 kB/s... 52X is current max speed... ~10000 rpm spindle speed

You can see that even though the multiplier is the same between different generations the data rate is phenominally higher in favor of the newer generation. It would appear that current drive designs for all generations of optical disks and spindle drives limit the max disk speed to around 10k-12k rpm before disk instability becomes a problem. Heck, even in high performance hard drives the purpose built platters only spin 15000 rpm. FYI, CD formfactor disks can only reach about 25,000 rpm before literally exploding... having long surpassed the necessary stability for data transfer?

As you can see above, the 12X BD-R is already flirting with that limit. I'd imagine if/when 16X BD-R comes out that the disk's phisical limitations will be reached. My guess is that the 12X BD-R will become the standard maximum write speed and a few companies will produce 16X drives... similar to CD's sactioned 48X limit with some companies opting to produce 52X.
Click to expand...


That makes it more clear but i'm sure someone will produce a 16x, but its going to be crazy expensive.
 
LazyBeam

LazyBeam

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Everything is expensive when it is new. I remember a few years ago during the format wars when a 2X BD-R drive was like $900.
One thing that excites me about 16X on the horizon is the resulting price drop for 12X.
Imagine <$75 12X drives to harvest diodes.

IMO, the 400mW of 12X drives is plenty. If I had a 12X I'd set it at a conservative 350mA for long-life and be happy.
The price is just not right (yet) for me. Someday when 16X is "cheap" I'll build a long-life 400mW 405nm.
 
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