Fluorescent Minerals and stuff - Blu-Ray & IR

I joined this board a couple of months ago to learn about Blu-Ray lasers; y'all have been very helpful.  Now I see several folks interested in what their Blu-Ray can do with these rocks.  Thought I might post a little thread to introduce everyone to what I know of this world...

Certain minerals react to UV light and emit a "glow" - often a very bright color completely different from the rock in its natural state  Blu-Ray diodes emit 405nm light - close to longwave UV (350nm to 400nm) and they will cause lots of minerals to glow bright and unusual colors.  To get more colors/brighter colors you have to move to UV lamps and special filters so that's out of the realm of this post.

You can find these minerals most anywhere.  Go to rock shows, museums, or even in your yard.  Light up a bunch of rocks and odds are you'll find something that glows (most commonly a white glow from calcite).  If you're lucky enough to live near a mineral rich area your odds go way up...  (I live in TN - nothing but limestone)

On another note - I have heard reports of fluorescence caused by IR in some minerals.  I attend a lot of mineral shows and one guy is always hovering over my tables (in the dark) with a TV remote looking for "electron traps" caused by the IR diode.  I kinda dismissed him as a little kookier than the rest of us "glowhounds" but now am wondering if anyone has tried their IR laser on rocks?  I wonder if it would be worth my while to use the IR diode from this now defunct LG deck to make an IR laser.....

Below is a short list of minerals you might encounter and the colors they ought to glow using a Blu-Ray LD: (there are may more, but with complex names, and rare)

Sodalite - orange
Fluorite - blue
Wernerite - yellow
Willemite - green
Aragonite - green
Autunite (uranium mineral) - bright green
Hyalite opal - bright green (caused by uranium impurities)
Ruby, Spinel - deep red
Diamond - blue, yellow, ???
Calcite - white, orange, green, +++
Powellite - yellow
Scapolite - red, yellow

One very interesting mineral is Franklin calcite.  It glows a bright orange under SW (254nm) UV light.  Under ordinary longwave UV it doesn't do much.  But with the Blu-Ray you can actually write your name in the rock (the mineral is phosphorescent, and the laser leaves an orange trail as you move it across the surface - a brief glow, but neat.)

Another neat toy/accessory for the Blu-Ray is phosphorecent/fluorescent paints.  You can buy them in several places and the Blu-Ray causes a glow that lasts for hours.

Below is a pic of a piece of sodalite from Greenland lit up by a 85mw Blu-Ray (alternating between its natural color, and the fluorescent color).  The pic was taken with a 1 sec time exposure while moving the LD in a "circle" over the rock to illuminate the entire surface.  I also used a yellow photography filter to reduce the voilet light from the laser and show the true color of the fluorescence.

Nice post, thanks for the info.....I have been trying lots of different plants and invertebrates to see what effects can be obtained, nothing much as yet. In the autumn I have high hopes of honey fungus as I know it can glow in the dark naturally so who knows, it may just work with a blue ray.... :

Regards rog8811

Hi Mark,

I just picked up your package from the post office a couple of days ago.It turns out it was sitting there for quite a while and somehow they didn't notified me.The tracking number info didn't get updated for weeks.I couldn't get the ruby to do anything with my LED, I guess the wave is too long, but I can say I never saw a rock glow so cool as the sodalite.I can say that is way more awesome than most fluorescent stuffs you can find in the house.The violet LED kinda dissapointed me as it is almost completely blocked by the hoya glass, too long of a wave again.I actually think it doesn't emit any UV at all and that the violet that I see is the peak wavelength.The blacklight tubes I have are a whole different story on the other hand.It's pretty cool to see something almost completely opaque to have no shadow on a fluorescing surface And it gives a whole new dimension to my portable tube.I can see cardboard fluorescing where paint is really thin on my wall, this was drowned in the dim, visible violet glow that is now blocked.I ordered the DX led pack , I hope those are gonna be better but I think I'm gonna look for a more powerful portable tube, the one I have is rather lowpowered(or maybe some shorter wave LEDs, but I guess those are expensive...).This really got me interested in building a blu-ray too, I just have to have one now.

About the IR thing, as far as I know, photons from fuorescence have lower energy than those that caused them, meaning longer wave, so any fluorescence caused by IR would be even deeper in the IR spectrum and still invisible.I guess if IR actually produces any visible effect , it is something other than fluorescence.And if you do build a class 3b IR laser make sure to buy some proper goggles.

I also managed to make watermarks on money show up using only sunlight filtered by the hoya glass ;D This got me thinking, to bad it's frosted on one side, I wonder how some UV photography would turn out....As I seen , CCD sensors have a larger visible spectrum than the human eye and more sensitivity at the IR end aswell as at the UV end.

Long post

You should try some scorpions rog, if you find any

Rog - locust wood glows yellow, and as Switch points out - scorpions!!! I find many of the plants and grass here in TN glows too. Lots of bugs will glow, as well as pee stains.... Yellow goggles will help a lot - reduce the visible violet light so you just see the stuff that is fluorescent (CSI style)....

Switch - yeah, the IR thing has to do with electron traps, not really fluoresence as I understand it. Kinda wierd, but interesting...

Most UV LEDs (the cheapies) are really 400nm to 420nm - not really LW. You can get 375nm, 385nm at a reasonable price butnot very bright. The problem with UV LEDs is that they put out so much visible light, thus the hoya glass. But Hoya won't let thru anything above 400nm, thus it's useless for the Blu-Ray.

There's a whole world of UV photography - Hoya makes a glass that is polished on both sides, and there are camera filters made out of Hoya - another hobby!

For those interested - Hoya glass is a "black glass", really not glass at all but a quartz-like material (fused silica) that passes UV but blocks visible light. It's used to make filters for UV lamps, and is very expensive ($4/sq in). It is similar to the blue glass you see on blacklights, but made of quartz for the shorter UV wavelengths.

Nice posts guys! I've got calcite pipes on my land up North and I've already found some nice specimens of minerals including Mica, so now that I have a Blu-Ray I'll be scouring them for florescence as well. If I find anything kewl I'll post photos as well. (I have to wait for the snow to melt first... )

Thanks for the info... it'll help me know what to look for when I go exploring. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Cheers, CC

I wonder where I could find a fair CSI style lamp, like a 5W or 10W tube.... :-/ I hate the fact that everything DX sells are LEDs.Maybe the cheapest way to go are yellow glasses and lots of LEDs, but would still like something of a shorter wave Need to make a bluray!! Can't wait for those 337nm diodes to come out Maybe in ten years they'll be in our disc players, writers, and pointers ;D

locust wood glows yellow, and as Switch points out - scorpions!!!

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I am on the wrong continent for either of them    It was switches mention of scorpions that got me shining my blue ray on invertebrates, my co-workers think I have a screw loose

Regards rog8811

Switch said:

I wonder where I could find a fair CSI style lamp, like a 5W or 10W tube.... :-/ I hate the fact that everything DX sells are LEDs.Maybe the cheapest way to go are yellow glasses and lots of LEDs, but would still like something of a shorter wave Need to make a bluray!! Can't wait for those 337nm diodes to come out Maybe in ten years they'll be in our disc players, writers, and pointers ;D

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Ordinary blacklights generate 350nm to 375nm UV (like this one listed on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/BLAZING-BLACKLI...oryZ3223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (I don't know this seller at all, this is just an example). Blacklights like that one will work fine for LW UV. The blue envelope filters the visible light (or you can use Hoya glass for even better filtering).

You can also buy a seperate germicidal UV tube (clear quartz fluorescent tube) that will fit in the above housing, put a hoya filter window and then you will have shortwave UV (254nm). (http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Watt-UV-Bulb-...oryZ3212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I don't know either of these Ebay sellers, and am not recommending them in any way - just for information...

LEDs really only go as low as 365nm (in affordable versions). They make shorter wavelenght LEDs (350nm, 255nm, etc) but they are very expensive and very low power. I have a 255nm LED and it's about worthless.... very faint output (50 microwatts) but - SW

yea i have one of those UV light for Eraising old eeprom chips its about 260-300nm. it looks whitish grey to me but it floureses things the uv color that are white

Ordinary blacklights generate 350nm to 375nm UV (like this one listed on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/BLAZING-BLACKLIGHT-6-INCH-HANDHELD-POWERFUL-BRIGHT-UV_W0QQit emZ260230635268QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (I don't know this seller at all, this is just an example). Blacklights like that one will work fine for LW UV. The blue envelope filters the visible light (or [highlight]you can use Hoya glass for even better filtering[/highlight]).

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Pirateo40,
Great post, very informitive, I love my BRs!! ;D
I did buy the light you had mentioned, if I wanted to place a Hoya window on this is there a really nice solution, or just buy some of the Hoya camera-filters listed on E-bay and "fit it up"or ?????.
Thanks again,
Dark Horse

Dark Horse - Hoya camera filters on Ebay usually are not the "black glass" but merely UV protection filters. A new Hoya UV *pass* filter runs $200+ - these filters are very expensive. Occasionally you can find "transilluminators" on Ebay which have Hoya filter glass (a very big sheet) but the unit doesn't work (they're used for DNA applications). Then you can pick it up cheap, tear out the filter and cut it to size.

Other than that - Edmunds sells the material - but they're real proud of it! You can buy direct from Hoya, but they're not easy to deal with and have minimum order qtys.

But - you really only need the Hoya glass if you're using a germicidal tube (254nm SW). It is worth it though if you're into making things (rocks) glow as the colors are much more vivid, and many more minerals will react to SW.

Mark

But - you really only need the Hoya glass if you're using a germicidal tube (254nm SW). It is worth it though if you're into making things (rocks) glow as the colors are much more vivid, and many more minerals will react to SW.

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I did buy the "germ-tube" you mentioned as well, I could not resist. I almost bought an additional lamp assy so that I did not have to change bulbs for LW-UV or SW-UV, but I thought my marriage is probably already strained just with the lasers, I will buy another later.
I could not find your auctions on Ebay you had mentioned earlier in the thread, the ones with BR reactive minerals, do you have a link to one of them?
Thanks again, super-cool post, ;D
Dark Horse

I don't go for ebay on UV stuff. Google LDP.NET or www.maxmax.com they have good stuff including 12W 254nm shortwave (germicidal) or 365nm leds. Downwards fluorescing does occur, when a electron absorbs two photons at the same time, emmiting one photon at a lower wavelenght.

My auctions are here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZminershop

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I found them now, cool stuff, thanks.
BTW, I live in NW USA, About 70miles north of Seattle, probably too far for that particular show, but I will look up a local one. Thanks again.
Dark Horse

Pirateo40 said:

My auctions are here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZminershop

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Hiya Pirate, I checked out your store. Nice stuff. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I really like the look of MSG1035, but if I read correctly, Blu-Ray laser light @ 405nm would only give the same effect as seen in your "longwave" images and not the spectacular colours of the shortwave. Am I correct?

I also notice that most of the longwave pictures show just yellow florescence. Are there any minerals that show colours other than yellow at the 405nm wavelength?

Just askin'