Effective Distance Question 175-200 mw

I just reviewed the law in Wikipedia and is said the following.

Cut and Paste from Wiki

Regulations and misuse

Since laser pointers became readily available, they have been misused, leading to the development of laws and regulations specifically addressing use of such lasers. Their very long range makes it difficult to find the source of a laser spot. In some circumstances they make people fear they are being targeted by weapons, as they are indistinguishable from dot type laser reticles. The very bright, small spot makes it possible to dazzle and distract drivers and aircraft pilots, and they can be dangerous to sight if aimed at the eyes.
In January 2005, a New Jersey man was arrested for pointing a green laser pointer at a small jet flying overhead.[16]
In 2008, laser pointers were aimed at players' eyes in a number of sport matches worldwide. Olympique Lyonnais was fined by UEFA because of a laser pointer beam aimed by a Lyon fan at Cristiano Ronaldo.[17] In a World Cup final qualifier match held in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia between the home team and the South Korean team, South Korean goalkeeper Lee Woon-Jae was hit in the eye with a green laser beam.[18]
Despite legislation limiting the output of laser pointers in some countries (such as the United States and Australia), higher-power devices are currently produced in other regions (especially China and Hong Kong), and are frequently imported by customers who purchase them directly via internet mail order. The legality of such transactions is not always clear; typically, the lasers are sold as research or OEM devices (which are not subject to the same power restrictions), with a disclaimer that they are not to be used as pointers. DIY videos are also often posted on Internet video sharing sites like YouTube which explain how to make a high-power laser pointer using the diode from an optical disc burner. As the popularity of these devices increased, manufacturers (primarily Chinese) began manufacturing similar high powered pointers. The US FDA has published a warning on the dangers of such high powered lasers.[19] Despite the disclaimers, such lasers are frequently sold in packaging resembling that for laser pointers. Lasers of this type may not include safety features sometimes found on laser modules sold for research purposes.

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There is no mention here of any kind of special license. I also could not find anything on a google search when I put in "Laser License Law" or "Astronomy Laser License" or even just strait up "Laser License". Does anyone know if there actually is a laser license?

ElektroFreak said:

Personally, the only issue that I have with anything you've posted is the fact that you will be using the laser to point *near* an airborne object without knowing exactly what the object is. Your own beliefs are yours to have, and I will not judge you based on them.

As you have no doubt found out, It is a felony in the US to point high-powered lasers in the direction of any aircraft. there is no addendum to this law that states "unless it's a UFO". It's a felony even if it's a UFO, and the members of this forum are right to criticize you for it.

People shining lasers at aircraft (ANY aircraft) will eventually be the reason that portable lasers are made illegal to possess, and no one here wants that to happen. You can bet that if you come here and talk about pointing at airborne objects, we will jump on you about it. If you doubt the fact that it is illegal, look it up. You'll see that not only is it illegal, but there have been many arrests around the world.

It is also illegal to shine any laser over 5mW into the air without express approval from the FDA and FAA. Period. You can get the necessary variance form from the FDA, but they will not approve it unless the laser you are using is approved as well.

The law is the law. As was said before, we have all pointed our lasers into the sky once or twice, so no one has an issue with that. The fact that you plan on doing it frequently and the fact that there is a "professional" teaching you that it's OK to do is absurd. This person is no professional, that much is for sure.

Also, if you see a UFO, why do you need to point a laser at it in the first place? Is it not good enough just to see/film it?

Do yourself and everyone here a favor and stop pointing your lasers at airborne objects.

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Seriously, you are just badgering me like MFO did. I do not even own a laser, how can I stop pointing at aircraft with something I do not even own. Read all of the information in the thread instead of jumping to conclusions. Thanks.

No one's badgering you.. if you don't own a laser, then there's no problem. You have been an absolutely unpleasant person almost since the moment you posted here. Frankly we don't need any more people like that here. LPF is the largest laser-related forum in the world, so the veterans here generally know what they're talking about. We're giving you the facts.. whether or not you choose to pay attention is up to you. Don't come here and start threads about ideas that are both stupid and illegal and expect us to pat you on the head about it.

I don't need you to lecture me about reading threads. I read enough of this one to get a good opinion of you and the ideas you asked about.

In my last post I gave you a straight response with no badgering, only the fact of the matter. If you can't handle that, that's not our problem.

Advice to any LPF members wanting to post in this thread:


DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are not sure what a light is just don't shine your laser near it. Also, when pointing at starts, make circles around them instead of directly pointing them to avoid errors.

If you stick with this point the laser at the sky as much as you want. It's not for that the lasers have became illegal in USA, it's for idiots pointing them at aircrafts deliberately to have fun.

I don't believe in UFOs, but if this guys say that they saw an object moving at such a speed let him point near it, even if it was a new "turbo reactor ultra insane speed plane" the pilot won't be thinking in reporting a guy with a laser pointing near him. However, I don't recommend you to do it.

@mfo: moderate your language please, I'm sorry but I'm giving negative rep to everyone using words like those, we are not supposed to be kids arguing in the school.

Ok, did any one bother to read post #30?

Ok I am back, sorry for my confrontational communication last night. I was on a few hours sleep last night and my fuse was much shorter than normal. That being said, calling me an asshole, judging me as childish, saying that I am in a mind control cult, saying that you hope I blind myself with my laser and you will laugh when I am carted away from jail for violating FAA laws and regulations is more than confrontational. It is malevolent and completely unnecessary.

I am in the process of learning about lasers and I did have some preconceived notions about what was legal and what was not, that where not accurate. I am not out to walk the line of sanity by shooting these things at aircraft or anywhere close enough to an aircraft for it to be a danger to the pilots. I have multiple friends that are helo and aircraft pilots and I would never want to risk blinding anyone or causing a safety issue for a pilot.

I have now read on the net that the law is very much related to distance from a major air fair (air port) in that you must be at least 10 miles from a major air fair to shoot any laser of any power into the air. Also that there is another law that sets the maximum power of any laser shot into the air in terms of 2mw/cubic centimeters out side of the 10 mile radius. At least the United States / FAA jurisdiction. This would put the laser I have ordered form IgorT into that illegal range for using in the sky.

I could not find where I can apply for one of these special License that would allow me to use the laser in a responsible way for pointing at both stationary stars and stars that do not seem to be so stationary. I would like to apply for one of these license because I wish to keep all of my bases covered. The pointing will not be directly at these stars, more like 20 degrees above, below, left or right of these astronomical objects in a quick large circular pattern around the star or what ever you wish to perceive it as.

If it looks like a star but moves a break neck speed and changes direction at acute angles, it may be something other than what most people have ever seen. Therefore they dismiss it as crazy talk or cult like observations. Please be aware that I am a very rational, spiritual, ethical, sane, and sober individual and if you wish to judge me as other than this then that is your issue not mine. I did not buy into this until I went out and saw it for myself. Jumping to the conclusion that anyone who has seen a UFO is insane or delusional is the judgers ego protecting the happy comfortable world view they have created for themselves.

I warned all of you that I was a nutty nut bag because I know how the tendency is in the general population to automatically segregate the opinions of anyone that are outside of the norm as crazy. I have come to expect this from people and it never surprises me when this happens. Therefore, If you wish to come in this thread and bash me for not being afraid to tell what I have seen with my own two eyes, then go right ahead. Just be aware that you are only impressing yourself and no one else.

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So now I am the following according to LPF "veterans" because I reacted to unnecessarily confrontation communication directed at me.

Cultists
Asshole
Childish
Irresponsible
Lawless
Irrational
Arrogant
A Troll

Moderators, where are you? I was trying to bring this thread back to a rational conversation about laser law so that I knew what I need to know to avoid causing legal problems after I get my laser. I guess that the people wishing to post after I have done this are only interested in confrontation. Good luck with that, I am going to go back to my life now. Later forever judge-a-rinoes.

Bye now.. This is a self-moderated forum.. and you've apparently just demonstrated how effective that can be.

Honestly, I was interested in confronting you. That's the entire reason I just posted. Like I said: LPF doesn't need anymore unpleasant people. When mfo tried to give you the facts in the first place, you jumped all over him. You also stated in this thread that we are all a bunch of "rule-obsessed geeks".. ever since you have been an ass. Don't let the door hit ya..

metaman said:

Ok I am back, sorry for my confrontational communication last night. I was on a few hours sleep last night and my fuse was much shorter than normal. That being said, calling me an asshole, judging me as childish, saying that I am in a mind control cult, saying that you hope I blind myself with my laser and you will laugh when I am carted away from jail for violating FAA laws and regulations is more than confrontational. It is malevolent and completely unnecessary.

I am in the process of learning about lasers and I did have some preconceived notions about what was legal and what was not, that where not accurate. I am not out to walk the line of sanity by shooting these things at aircraft or anywhere close enough to an aircraft for it to be a danger to the pilots. I have multiple friends that are helo and aircraft pilots and I would never want to risk blinding anyone or causing a safety issue for a pilot.

I have now read on the net that the law is very much related to distance from a major air fair (air port) in that you must be at least 10 miles from a major air fair to shoot any laser of any power into the air. Also that there is another law that sets the maximum power of any laser shot into the air in terms of 2mw/cubic centimeters out side of the 10 mile radius. At least the United States / FAA jurisdiction. This would put the laser I have ordered form IgorT into that illegal range for using in the sky.

I could not find where I can apply for one of these special License that would allow me to use the laser in a responsible way for pointing at both stationary stars and stars that do not seem to be so stationary. I would like to apply for one of these license because I wish to keep all of my bases covered. The pointing will not be directly at these stars, more like 20 degrees above, below, left or right of these astronomical objects in a quick large circular pattern around the star or what ever you wish to perceive it as.

If it looks like a star but moves a break neck speed and changes direction at acute angles, it may be something other than what most people have ever seen. Therefore they dismiss it as crazy talk or cult like observations. Please be aware that I am a very rational, spiritual, ethical, sane, and sober individual and if you wish to judge me as other than this then that is your issue not mine. I did not buy into this until I went out and saw it for myself. Jumping to the conclusion that anyone who has seen a UFO is insane or delusional is the judgers ego protecting the happy comfortable world view they have created for themselves.

I warned all of you that I was a nutty nut bag because I know how the tendency is in the general population to automatically segregate the opinions of anyone that are outside of the norm as crazy. I have come to expect this from people and it never surprises me when this happens. Therefore, If you wish to come in this thread and bash me for not being afraid to tell what I have seen with my own two eyes, then go right ahead. Just be aware that you are only impressing yourself and no one else.

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Well, I'm glad to see you finally came to your senses somewhat. However you having a short fuse of lack of sleep or what ever it is/was is not our problem. All we did was try to help you out by answering your question. I don't think you're a "nutty nut bag" because of your beliefs. I happen to believe that we're not alone in this universe also. However what you wanted to do with your pointer was a bit crazy. As far as obtaining a license goes, get in touch with the FAA and the FDA. I know for a fact that Igor's build is a no go because all lasers for this purpose need a key switch, and I believe a five second delay when you push the power button to activate the beam.

metaman said:

I just reviewed the law in Wikipedia and is said the following.

Cut and Paste from Wiki



There is no mention here of any kind of special license. I also could not find anything on a google search when I put in "Laser License Law" or "Astronomy Laser License" or even just strait up "Laser License". Does anyone know if there actually is a laser license?

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Don't believe everything you read in Wiki. Do remember that anyone can edit the info there and put just about what ever they wish as long as they make the info look credible.

metaman said:

Seriously, you are just badgering me like MFO did. I do not even own a laser, how can I stop pointing at aircraft with something I do not even own. Read all of the information in the thread instead of jumping to conclusions. Thanks.

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We were badgering you because you were acting really arrogant last night/yesterday. All we were trying to do was help you. If I seemed a little harsh, I apologize. However I'm sure that now even you see that what you were going to do was a big insane.

Hallucynogenyc said:

If you are not sure what a light is just don't shine your laser near it. Also, when pointing at starts, make circles around them instead of directly pointing them to avoid errors.

If you stick with this point the laser at the sky as much as you want. It's not for that the lasers have became illegal in USA, it's for idiots pointing them at aircrafts deliberately to have fun.

I don't believe in UFOs, but if this guys say that they saw an object moving at such a speed let him point near it, even if it was a new "turbo reactor ultra insane speed plane" the pilot won't be thinking in reporting a guy with a laser pointing near him. However, I don't recommend you to do it.

@mfo: moderate your language please, I'm sorry but I'm giving negative rep to everyone using words like those, we are not supposed to be kids arguing in the school.

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Don't tell me to watch my language. This is the internet, and occasionally people will swear. This is really the only time I've ever sworn on this forum, so relax. If you can't handle an occasional curse word then you really shouldn't be on the internet and on a forum none the less. There's far much worse stuff out there. And just an FYI, I gave you a negative rep too. I'm trying to help people out here, and you gave me a negative rep. Why? Because I used the word "Asshole"? Grow up will you? I'm still a newb here trying to build my credibility and you had to go and do something like that.

metaman said:

So now I am the following according to LPF "veterans" because I reacted to unnecessarily confrontation communication directed at me.

Cultists
Asshole
Childish
Irresponsible
Lawless
Irrational
Arrogant
A Troll

Moderators, where are you? I was trying to bring this thread back to a rational conversation about laser law so that I knew what I need to know to avoid causing legal problems after I get my laser. I guess that the people wishing to post after I have done this are only interested in confrontation. Good luck with that, I am going to go back to my life now. Later forever judge-a-rinoes.

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Again I'm not trying to pick on you...but you did kind of fall into those categories last night. I'm not here to beef with you, or anyone. I'm only here to help, as I've been helped since I first joined this forum. You asked a question, we tried to answer it. You said you were going to point your laser skyward towards aircraft, we advised you not to do that and then you got all defensive. So it's only expected that people here would become upset at you when you use your pointer in a dangerous way. It seems now however that you've come to your senses somewhat, so I wish you good luck and please be careful.

@mfo: you give me a bad input on my reputation saying that:

"I believe everyone here should have freedom of speach. Don't tell me to watch my language k thnx."

Well, it's not about what do I believe or what do you believe, it's about following the rules. Maybe you just never read them, but there are some rules here that forbid to use that kind of language. So yes, I'm telling you again to watch your language and I recommend you to follow my advice or C0ld will have to give you a warning.

Yours,
Albert

Hallucynogenyc said:

@mfo: you give me a bad input on my reputation saying that:

"I believe everyone here should have freedom of speach. Don't tell me to watch my language k thnx."

Well, it's not about what do I believe or what do you believe, it's about following the rules. Maybe you just never read them, but there are some rules here that forbid to use that kind of language. So yes, I'm telling you again to watch your language and I recommend you to follow my advice or C0ld will have to give you a warning.

Yours,
Albert

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Hey Albert...
I can clearly understand why "mfo" reacted the way he did...
(he had reason)...
and if someone was to put him straight it would be the LPF Admin... and the
last time I checked... the Admin was not you...

What you can do is complain to the Admin... but that's all...
Handing our neg reps as punishment is not your job... IMO
You are not even a Moderator...

Jerry

lasersbee said:

Hey Albert...
I can clearly understand why "mfo" reacted the way he did...
(he had reason)...
and if someone was to put him straight it would be the LPF Admin... and the
last time I checked... the Admin was not you...

What you can do is complain to the Admin... but that's all...
Handing our neg reps as punishment is not your job... IMO
You are not even a Moderator...

Jerry

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PM sent

PM Replied...

Jerry

Hallucynogenyc said:

@mfo: you give me a bad input on my reputation saying that:

"I believe everyone here should have freedom of speach. Don't tell me to watch my language k thnx."

Well, it's not about what do I believe or what do you believe, it's about following the rules. Maybe you just never read them, but there are some rules here that forbid to use that kind of language. So yes, I'm telling you again to watch your language and I recommend you to follow my advice or C0ld will have to give you a warning.

Yours,
Albert

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Ok, I tried to keep my cool with you, but it looks like you need a reality check.

1) Who died and left you in charge? Last time I checked, you're not the admin. Hell, you're not even a mod. You had no right to negative rep me because of what I said. If someone here says something offensive, use the "Report" function.

2) I did in fact read the rules. Here's a little quote from the rules.

c0ldshadow said:

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually-oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law. You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or you have consent from the owner of the copyrighted material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also inappropriate to this forum.

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In case you have reading comprehension problems, that paragraph says nothing about swearing on the forums. You may have confused the word "obscene" in there with profanity, however that was used in reference to obscene "material" (Material being the key word here.).

3) Here's another quote from the rules.

c0ldshadow said:

Anyone who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to notify an administrator of this forum immediately. We have the right to remove objectionable content, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.

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Apparently you didn't read the rules because you're the one that actually broke them. You didn't like my choice of words, so you chose to give me negative rep because of it and lectured me for it. The appropriate action here would have been to notify the admin, which I am once again reminding you that you failed to do.

4) Grow up! As I mentioned earlier, this is the internet and a forum at that. People come here to talk & mingle with each other. Occasionally people are going to disagree and tempers may flare. If you're scared of a little curse word then I HIGHLY suggest that you disconnect your computer from the internet.

wow. interesting conversations.

Reminds me of the guy i was telling not to carry chambered and loaded hand guns into the ranch house this weekend. He's a new CHL and new gun so of course he didn't listen. Long story short, sunday morning, while ramming the clip home, he managed to slamfire the gun with 15 sleepy/hungover people in the kitchen. Luckily no one was hurt, but the story's lesson is the same...

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. MFO...utilize your time on someone more worthwhile and open to listening. Some folks just come itching to argue and 'prove' just how smart they are.

ama69 said:

wow. interesting conversations.

Reminds me of the guy i was telling not to carry chambered and loaded hand guns into the ranch house this weekend. He's a new CHL and new gun so of course he didn't listen. Long story short, sunday morning, while ramming the clip home, he managed to slamfire the gun with 15 sleepy/hungover people in the kitchen. Luckily no one was hurt, but the story's lesson is the same...

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. MFO...utilize your time on someone more worthwhile and open to listening. Some folks just come itching to argue and 'prove' just how smart they are.

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That's true. With that, I am officially done with this thread. It's been an abortion since about the fifth post lol. Thanks for the advice

Ok, i am convinced now... Everyone is crazy here. (Including me of course...) I was told everyone was, but didn't believe it until now when i saw all these replies...


Otherwise, I thought my lasers were advertised as "professionally assembled", not "professional lasers".
That's because i worked with electronics all my life. I have an electronics R&D company.


What that means is, that i'm not a kid follwing a tutorial, without even knowing how to solder, thinking they can make lasers!

I repaired more lasers from other builders, than my own. What was wrong? ALWAYS bad soldering (and gross negligence in putting the thing together)! Diodes kiled by bad solder joints. You can't have cold solder joints on diodes! You need a huge capacitor on the diode, and then you need a perfectly soldered driver, because the diode is a part of the circuit in a constant current build. One interruption and it's dead. Killed by the parts that are supposed to protect it.



I've done more soldering in my life than all those kids together... You wanna know what my work is? Companies ask me to develop, design and build devices from SCRATCH. They tell me what it has to do, and my company makes a device that does just that...

I have an engineer who designs most of my circuits for larger scale PCB manufacturing, i draw many myself for smaller volume (like my driver)...


And i must be crazy to have built ~130 lasers without even seeing any money out of it except in two cases!

I charge in PayPal, so i can buy stuff online, and mostly i just bought more diodes out of it (and some books and other small things where PP is accepted). I can't even get money out of PayPal in Slovenia - the tiny country where i live, a country which most of you wouldn't even find on a map.

I got diodes from the lasers i made, diodes which i then killed so i must be even crazier... But the results benefited the entire forum, knowing what diodes can or can not do.

Have you seen the equipment i designed just to test and torture diodes? Or the tests i do on diodes, the graphs i make?
Perhaps the drivers i designed before there even was a FlexDrive, or the heatsinks i make for my laser builds?

It's in this very long thread on the BST section of the forum, so most people never really read it completelly... Mostly just the crazy people who buy my lasers, they usually read it from start to finish! By the time they are done, they usually understand more about lasers, than the average DX laser buyer who actually does point it at a plane or helicopter for fun.




Otherwise, mfo is right. I won't just sell to everyone. I just sell to crazy people, who like lasers for their pretty beams. And they are not even kids! Every single one of whom has pointed theirs at the sky many times at night, just to enjoy the beam, i'm sure!




But i'll talk to metaman about his intended laser use, see what it's about. I'll even go watch the absurdely long video to see what they do.

I'll make the laser, but if i don't like what i see, i can still refund. Only then i can't buy an 8x diode for my buddy Glenn who contributed as much to my diode experiments as me by helping me import diodes into this crazy country of mine.


Thing is, if it wasn't for us crazy people, no one would even reply to this thread..


Otherwise, mfg, your signature was ironic the moment i saw it in the PM...


Do i need to design a 5s delay into my drivers and an apperture and keylock to get the professional aprooval from you?

I'm just kidding, i understand what you meant when i read it. I know my lasers are not professional or even legal.
But they can be lots of fun! And i think i can say professionally assembled, if i want to. Only took me 10 years to learn what i know.

I actually wanted to change my sig, but now i think i'll keep it exactly the way it is.



Another thing. When i was younger, i used to believe in UFOs as well, i can more than understand metaman's enthusiasm. :beer:

But i will talk to him about his intended laser use... Just to find out what they do.






Otherwise, here are some photos of my real work, which results in devices just as crazy as these lasers..

These masks worn on the face, measure the wearer's breathing, display it on LEDs, and send data to a computer wirelessly as far as 10m (30 feet), the computer will one day calculate if the person is asleep from the breathing patterns and send a signal to another device which measures relaxation..


I had to make five of these prototypes, and later five more for a company who specializes in accelerated learning experiments.
They teach foreign languages and claim 3-4x as fast learning as with usual methods. One week and you learn one grade with these devices supposedly.



They keep breaking these devices by throwing them on the floor... Then they complain cos they only last a year!
The electronics inside would last 100 years minimum, but tdhey break the breath-sensor!


- The first three photos show a device which i had to make from scratch! It works mostly like a Blutooth phone..
- The last photos show a finished device.

They are made from plastic sheets, almost paper-thin!

I make the circuits in one hour then i have two weeks to make the masks!

They cost $700 a piece!