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Old 09-27-2011, 10:24 PM #17
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Welcome to the forums, good luck with your project.

I like the fact this has had lots of views because it says police in the title.



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Old 09-27-2011, 11:43 PM #18
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Wow, so many views and responses in such a short time. This is great!

I've been up for 20-hours now, and just came back from my firearm qualification test. I passed on the first try after shooting several hundred rounds. If I don't make sense, you now know why.

Just as a heads up, I joined an airsoft forum and will save the airsoft modification questions for that forum. I also joined a computer software and hardware forum for the laser camera tracking (I'm already good-to-go on this end).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
Consider one thing, anyway ..... if you want to have a "realistic recoil" and a laser shooting at the same time, you will probably end needing a lot of space inside the weapon, so need to get a big gun (and also, any modifications will be permanents, no way for turn the airsoft back to shoot BBs)
I have no intentions to keep the airsoft ready to shoot BB's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
Anyway, as far as i've seen, all the "recoiling" airsoft guns (or, at least, the ones that i have dismantled for repair them til now) uses a "trick" for have a recoil function ..... the expansion chamber for the gas is a double-body cylinder, with a valve that is kept opened from the presence of the BB bullet, and til that point the gas is flowing to the barrel ..... when the BB start to move, the valve closes, and the gas only expand in the cylinder chamber, that "push back" the carriage ..... at the end of the back-course, a lever disengage the gas valve, closing it, so the carriage spring push it back in the original position.

The gas tank is usually in the handler, as part of the cliploader ..... you can take away the front valve, BB guide and tube positioner, and the part that hold the BB bullets in the cliploader, but about the rest, all that mechanism need to be left in place, also if modified, if you still want to have a recoil without the need to have the gun connected to an external air tank (like the military professional units), so there is not too much space remaining inside the gun, for the modifications.
Thanks for the information. I will definitely review your post when I get the airsoft pistols in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
I modified in the past 3 BB guns that was too broken for be repaired ..... two was 9mm "beretta" replicas and one was a m1911 replica, no recoil function on them ..... the one i'm planning, well, this is for myself, but ..... i'm studying about the possibility to turn a "recoiling" one into a training unit, bu til now i had no luck in finding a decently big one, and i really don't have enough money for buy a new one and "mangle" it for that ..... probably a desert eagle have enough space inside, but they cost a lot ..... so i'm waiting for see if the shops that i know, first or after, get one broken big enough (or if the prices goes lower, here )
I'm also contemplating making the airsoft gun just a laser emitter without recoil, if push comes to shove. I'll figure a way to have the trigger reset each time with the laser. If there is no room, I'll see if I can use some of my workbench tools to drill and increase the room - thus the reason why I have no intention to keep this as a usable airsoft gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
As alternative, you can use a "normal" gun with an add-on, like those underbarrel lasersights, using that part for contain almost all the electronic ..... not too much practical, as "street gun", i know ..... on the "funny" side, i've seen on youtube an airsoft gun big enough for hold inside almost anything, pity it's a cartoon gun (gungrave anime serie ..... a "little bit" too big )
Thanks for the video, but I'll pass on that gun in the video . I already have a real gun (Beretta 92FS among several other "normal guns") with a training laser that actually fits into the barrel, it's called a LaserBlaster-X. It works great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobhaha View Post
Just throwing it out there... would a simulated recoil affect in the software have its benefits? Because as far as I can see... once you press the button the laser will be on its target... then your hand will react to recoil... (light moves faster than your hand :P). The response time between laser being turned on and hand moving will be too great to bother in my opinion.
There are several benefits to having simulated recoil. The biggest reason is because it's conditioning the mind and body, although slight, it does help in the long run. Follow up shots are more difficult with simulated recoil. Also, having simulated recoil makes sure you have your fingers in the correct place (not on the slide).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
What if you had a recoil function in the software that will alter then users laser position to factor in recoil/wind/ricochet etc.. This amount can be altered to factor in other variables like old weapons/bad sight/bad alignment. Also it can be changed for other factors like using a rifle/pistol etc.
As I stated in previous posts, there will be no wind or ricochets in the software, because it wouldn't be a major determining factor in real life for the scenarios. Most police officers draw their gun within 21-feet or less of their assailant. Also, ricochets are overrated and generally happen on firearm ranges due to the FMJ rounds. Duty ammo is JHP. If you don't know the difference, Wikipedia or Google it.

Quote:
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EDIT: There was a mythbusters episode of it where they filmed a gun being shot in high FPS videp where they pressed the trigger of the gun, the LED turned on, then there was a long pause till the recoil was initiated. Of course I can not find that clip anywhere on the internet!
Huh? What does the LED have to do with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misanthrop View Post
Welcome to the forums, good luck with your project.

I like the fact this has had lots of views because it says police in the title.
Thanks. I hoping someone would notice that. Muah!

Thanks again everyone. As always, stay safe and take care!
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:23 AM #19
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

ISMT
Simulation Training

U.S. Marine Corpsí Indoor Simulated Marksmanship Trainer.

Basically magazines are full of air, (like an airsoft) but no plastic bb.. you pull the trigger the mechanics mixed with the air gives the propper recoil along with laser beam being emitted.. on to a projected white screen of the target then in turn the series of "cameras" sensors recieves the information and displays the shot info to the shooter via a usb type lcd display or through animation of signs on the projected screen your self.

most importantly you can emulate any target at any range with any weapon. Machine guns, Rocket launchers, Assault rifles, anti-material weapons, hand guns...it uses "real" weapons so weight and sight systems take real marksmen ship skills.

Congrats on your test.

Also Scenarios are easily added based on need You shoot the video, you edit the video with targets and time information, you upload it to the system you run it. You can use it.
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:33 AM #20
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Bottom up approach or top down approach?
































Edit: If it's a girl either ways good.

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Old 09-28-2011, 08:13 AM #21
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Well, if you don't need the recoil, the circuit is very easy ..... just a microswitch, a monostable circuit (555 IC) and a battery ..... in this case, a lot of space, in the gun, cause you take away all the "unneeded" parts (cylinder, springs, and so on), and for this reason also a cheap "spring type" gun is enough.

Still searching for a decent recoiling one with space, but til now no luck.



@bobhaha : about the recoil ..... it's not just for the "realistic scene", and also, it does not affect the trajectory of the laser, is not for that reason that is done ..... in a real fire sequence, you "lost" the sight line at each recoil, and part of the training is to "regain" it in instinctive way ..... this cannot be simulated without a recoil, and is for this reason that all the "realistic" training system have it (sometimes, also using external pistons and air tubes in connection with a FATS system, but as far as i remember there is a prototype of M92 that use a backpack for the gas tank and a wireless connection, instead fixed cables)
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:19 AM #22
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Oh, and welcome to LPF! You see we have a lot of experts here to help you with your design. Bruno Rocks!
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Old 09-28-2011, 03:27 PM #23
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
Well, if you don't need the recoil, the circuit is very easy ..... just a microswitch, a monostable circuit (555 IC) and a battery ..... in this case, a lot of space, in the gun, cause you take away all the "unneeded" parts (cylinder, springs, and so on), and for this reason also a cheap "spring type" gun is enough.

Still searching for a decent recoiling one with space, but til now no luck.



@bobhaha : about the recoil ..... it's not just for the "realistic scene", and also, it does not affect the trajectory of the laser, is not for that reason that is done ..... in a real fire sequence, you "lost" the sight line at each recoil, and part of the training is to "regain" it in instinctive way ..... this cannot be simulated without a recoil, and is for this reason that all the "realistic" training system have it (sometimes, also using external pistons and air tubes in connection with a FATS system, but as far as i remember there is a prototype of M92 that use a backpack for the gas tank and a wireless connection, instead fixed cables)
Oh I see what you mean. Never thought of it like that...

Couldn't a cheap solenoid with a weight attached to the end provide enough recoil? I'm sure you could get something that ran off 5V that will fit where the barrel used to be.
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Old 09-28-2011, 03:49 PM #24
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Cool idea...
Do you think you can make it crash as often as PQ: Swat did?
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:20 PM #25
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

Y'know if you really need a "vibration" switch. Those are incredibly easy to make. All you need is a spring with a wire running down the center of the spring. As the thing vibrates, it causes the spring to move and come in contact with the wire in the center. This makes a "momentary" activation and as soon as there is no more vibration, the spring ceases it's bouncing and it's contact with the center wire. I've seen similar things done in my children's bouncy ball with LED's inside. When the ball bounces on the floor it activates the circuit and turns on the LED which goes through it's flashy cycle. I would think you could very easily pull one of those switches from the ball or not wanting to take the time, could VERY easily make one yourself.

I've built some high powered laser sights for individuals and if it were me, this is what I'd do. The laser module would operate and require a LOT less wiring. Plus it would give you the required momentary activation only when the vibration occurred and not afterwards.

Last edited by Kenom; 09-28-2011 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:42 AM #26
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Wink Re: Police Officer here for help.

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Originally Posted by Kenom View Post
Y'know if you really need a "vibration" switch. Those are incredibly easy to make. All you need is a spring with a wire running down the center of the spring. As the thing vibrates, it causes the spring to move and come in contact with the wire in the center. This makes a "momentary" activation and as soon as there is no more vibration, the spring ceases it's bouncing and it's contact with the center wire. I've seen similar things done in my children's bouncy ball with LED's inside. When the ball bounces on the floor it activates the circuit and turns on the LED which goes through it's flashy cycle. I would think you could very easily pull one of those switches from the ball or not wanting to take the time, could VERY easily make one yourself.

I've built some high powered laser sights for individuals and if it were me, this is what I'd do. The laser module would operate and require a LOT less wiring. Plus it would give you the required momentary activation only when the vibration occurred and not afterwards.
I agree with you for a RANDOM vibration switch, but this case is different ..... you need, here, to activate the laser always for a precise amount of time, and only when the trigger is pushed (or, better said, when the hammer reach its end course against the percussor), and not for any vibration of the gun.

In this case, a switch connected to the mechanism (for built-in systems), or a piezo-switch (for the independent systems, like the laserblaster and similar ones) are the only systems for give you the correct result.






@ Guyfromhe: yes, it's possible, but the current fulse you need for move a mass big enough for give you a satisfying recoil with a solenoid, is too high for a battery (or, anyway, for a self-contained battery) ..... for this reason, too, professional systems still uses gas or compressed air
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:54 AM #27
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

I disagree. The one in the "in barrel" solution is no more than a vibration activated switch probably of the exact same design and it works for the application. I understand that it needs to only flash once so that the camera can pick up the location of the flash on the field to register where it hit on the target. Now I understand that this is being built from an Air gun and thus has other considerations, but I cannot believe that something like this wouldn't work. Needless to say, I've put in all I can.
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:04 AM #28
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Default Re: Police Officer here for help.

^ Sorry, Kenom, but for those "in the barrel" units, you don't have recoil function, so a spring is not enough.

That what i mean is, that those units works with the noise of the hammer/percussor that hit the "dummy bullet" in the chamber, but the weapon itself, working in that system, don't do any recoil nor other movement ..... so, basically, the switch need to be activated only from a specific "noise peak" (just the hammer hit is not enough for displace the barrel, nor it do that) ..... for this reason they use a piezo unit, practically is a contact microphone ..... then a simple circuit discriminate the duration of the "noise peak" from other possible vibrations, and activate the laser for a certain amount of time, usually 100ms or similar (this for units like laserblaster, that are designed for use them inside real weapons, in place of real bullets, and without any modification of the weapon itself)

Maybe i made confusion talking about the FATS system ..... it use different weapons, modified for work with external air tanks, and where the trigger is linked to the system via a cable, and that have a realistic recoil ..... that is a different thing.

For the airgun one, instead, we don't need a similar solution, cause we can modify the weapon mechanically.
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High Impulse Multipath Neutron Laser (mark 9 ) (LOL)
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