Help help help

yeah ==great and valid points--thanks

maybe a better approach would be if we somehow take turns 'friending' new members and THEN give them links and advice.
IF we can get them to read some stickies I think even just that will help. OR when they DO add their location a member close can reach out. I have never done that without getting nice replies. I started a social group here for Texas members- Most are happy to be invited and I had gotten to me quite few in person.

To be clear I don't think I am picking on te new members.... just focusing on them as I am sure most who have spent some time here already know what is wrong and how to 'fix' it-- 'peer pressure' is not always a bad thing.

Anyone who reads the quotes from those convicted will get an eye opener==
I thought the beam ended-I could see where it stopped.
If they are legal to own then its legal to shine anywhere I want.
I pushed to button by accident
I only wanted to see if I could see the beam on the aircraft--to see how far it shined.
It was my friend with my laser. Not me.
best one-- I found it on the ground in the park and only tried to see if it worked and the aircraft was there --I did not see it.

AND there has been a trend in 2014 of less 'laser AIMED at aircraft' reports-
Less of them than in 2013-- BUT that fact should not in any way give cause to do nothing or less on our part. -- 'Pro-Active' means we do as much as we can to keep this trend going. So IMHO if I hurt the feeling of some new members ---I can live with that==safety trumps' butt-hurt' every time. AND I think in some cases the complaint is from a guilty conscience.

hk

hakzaw1 said:

Anyone who reads the quotes from those convicted will get an eye opener==
I thought the beam ended-I could see where it stopped.
If they are legal to own then its legal to shine anywhere I want.
I pushed to button by accident
I only wanted to see if I could see the beam on the aircraft--to see how far it shined.
It was my friend with my laser. Not me.
best one-- I found it on the ground in the park and only tried to see if it worked and the aircraft was there --I did not see it.

Click to expand...

:crackup: Couldn't said it better!

USAbro said:

What is the sentencing for minors (typically)?

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GOOD question---not sure really--I think in those cases ==we may not hear about that-- and for sure they will get treated 'easier' them adults BUT they need to know about what can happen BEFORE they find out the HARD way..

One true expert on this and ALL things laser is Steve Roberts aka LASFAQ
I have met him at all SELEMs and when he speaks we ALL listen- He has written lots of stuff that we read at Sam's Laser FAQ-

you can take anything from Steve--'to the bank' he only posts at LPF to help us from making BIG MISTAKES.
Steve is a very experienced laser show operator with years on the job.
So its a error to think his posts/threads are only opinions and he well deserves out respect.
(Are you following me USAbro??)

Do not let his low post & rep count fool you.

He does not mince words and clearly sees pointers as a problem --on which we cannot disagree...If it were not true--plz explain to me HOW the average daily report of lasers being AIMED at aircraft is ~10 times PER DAY in the USA alone is NOT a huge problem that not only effects pointer owners who own for 'FUN' but also those who do laser shows professionally.:shhh:

hak

Cop just told me the typical penalties for minors lasing are suspending the time a teen can get his drivers license along with suspension of other privileges.

Where can I find the new members list?

hakzaw1 said:

GOOD question---not sure really--I think in those cases ==we may not hear about that-- and for sure they will get treated 'easier' them adults BUT they need to know about what can happen BEFORE they find out the HARD way..

One true expert on this and ALL things laser is Steve Roberts aka LASFAQ
I have met him at all SELEMs and when he speaks we ALL listen- He has written lots of stuff that we read at Sam's Laser FAQ-

you can take anything from Steve--'to the bank' he only posts at LPF to help us from making BIG MISTAKES.
Steve is a very experienced laser show operator with years on the job.
So its a error to think his posts/threads are only opinions and he well deserves out respect.
(Are you following me USAbro??)

Do not let his low post & rep count fool you.

He does not mince words and clearly sees pointers as a problem --on which we cannot disagree...If it were not true--plz explain to me HOW the average daily report of lasers being AIMED at aircraft is ~10 times PER DAY in the USA alone is NOT a huge problem that not only effects pointer owners who own for 'FUN' but also those who do laser shows professionally.:shhh:

hak

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I can not agree more about what Hak said about Steve.(even though I don't really know him. His reputation proceeds him.) He has paid his dues and Definitely deserves utmost respect.

Svenvbins said:

Just giving my 2 cents here.

While I think that laser safety is indeed very important, and definitely should be spread, I (*personally*) think things are getting a bit out of hand. I mean, bombarding new members with multiple PM's, asking them to read each & every word of several stickies & threads? These threads are not always that easy to read, with information sometimes spread over multiple posts & pages with lots of chatter in between.
I agree with Flutterpie that it would probably deter people (and no, not just people who don't care about the rules, but also serious persons who are just scared away by all the attention & passive aggression).

Idea: Great. I'm just concerned about the execution.
I think that one clear, well-written, concise 'statement'/safety briefing / sticky thread / pm will be much more effective.

Then again, I'm relatively new here and haven't had much experience in the online laser safety world.

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I've always wondered if there could be a quiz of sorts, or put it in the terms and conditions? So that anyone trying to make a account has to pass it or at least show that they've read and comprehend it.

hakzaw1 said:

GOOD question---not sure really--I think in those cases ==we may not hear about that-- and for sure they will get treated 'easier' them adults BUT they need to know about what can happen BEFORE they find out the HARD way..

One true expert on this and ALL things laser is Steve Roberts aka LASFAQ
I have met him at all SELEMs and when he speaks we ALL listen- He has written lots of stuff that we read at Sam's Laser FAQ-

you can take anything from Steve--'to the bank' he only posts at LPF to help us from making BIG MISTAKES.
Steve is a very experienced laser show operator with years on the job.
So its a error to think his posts/threads are only opinions and he well deserves out respect.
(Are you following me USAbro??)

Do not let his low post & rep count fool you.

He does not mince words and clearly sees pointers as a problem --on which we cannot disagree...If it were not true--plz explain to me HOW the average daily report of lasers being AIMED at aircraft is ~10 times PER DAY in the USA alone is NOT a huge problem that not only effects pointer owners who own for 'FUN' but also those who do laser shows professionally.:shhh:

hak

Click to expand...

Following you all the way. Never though how peoples foolishness really seriously could affect a guys job. He could get put out of work, this is no jokes for people who think it's funny.
People just don't understand a laser pointers danger, let alone a 1+watt handheld.

Short story: I recently showed my 1.6watt laser to my friend whom I trust fairly well, we are neighbors. It was daytime. I told him all about it, not to let the beam swing around, and made sure he and I were wearing safety goggles.

Despite that, the moment I handed it to him, he pointed it at a tree, then pointed it at the ground, passing the beam straight across a neighbors house's windows and front door. Fortunately no one was home. They were on vacation on an Alaskan Cruise (makes me jealous!) but it shows how people don't respect a lasers power. I take part of the blame for this because I probably shouldn't have given it to him in the first place.

Another thing is. I bet if people were using a 1.6watt greenie he would never shine it at a house and would be ever so careful. It's because he you can't see the beam as we all well know, as well as green, and it gives people a false sense of security.

Hak, what your doing on the forum is good, I hope we all can make a change before it's too late.

USAbro said:

Following you all the way. Never though how peoples foolishness really seriously could affect a guys job. He could get put out of work, this is no jokes for people who think it's funny.
People just don't understand a laser pointers danger, let alone a 1+watt handheld.

Short story: I recently showed my 1.6watt laser to my friend whom I trust fairly well, we are neighbors. It was daytime. I told him all about it, not to let the beam swing around, and made sure he and I were wearing safety goggles.

Despite that, the moment I handed it to him, he pointed it at a tree, then pointed it at the ground, passing the beam straight across a neighbors house's windows and front door. Fortunately no one was home. They were on vacation on an Alaskan Cruise (makes me jealous!) but it shows how people don't respect a lasers power. I take part of the blame for this because I probably shouldn't have given it to him in the first place.

Another thing is. I bet if people were using a 1.6watt greenie he would never shine it at a house and would be ever so careful. It's because he you can't see the beam as we all well know, as well as green, and it gives people a false sense of security.

Hak, what your doing on the forum is good, I hope we all can make a change before it's too late.

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Agreed. I did that with a relative and he swung the beam across a bay at many houses. I literally grabbed the laser and had a little "talk" with him.

I like these ideas too. It would be hard to track who has messaged a newcomer and what exactly they sent them. Is there anyway that new members would have to post in welcome first so they could get this info that way? Or read and agree to something other than terms of agreement. As I type this it does seem most ways are a little forceful. We don't want to push any newcomers away by doing this either. I am on the fence and would like to hear/help with any decent ideas. Being a newcomer myself I feel this is a great idea if put into stone correctly!

upaa27 said:

Agreed. I did that with a relative and he swung the beam across a bay at many houses. I literally grabbed the laser and had a little "talk" with him.

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Same here. I had a talk with him but still to this day he thinks lasers are toys. He even got a hold of his older brothers 1mw eBay cat toy and attempted starring into it. He's always been a daredevil, thinking, "I'm young, I could never get hurt!" He used to jump from tree to tree in the woods when we were younger, always climbed the highest.

Funny thing is, he's older than me! He turned 17 in September and I turned 15 this past January!

Also, when it comes to reasoning about lasers, people seem to be so stupid.

For example, if I say. "It is cloudy during the winter." A majority of youthful "knowitalls"

would say. Today it is cloudy therefore it must be winter. STUPID!!!

Well that's what this friend of mine told me. I said, a good rule of thumb. "If a laser can burn from 10 feet, you need safety glasses." So he comes up with something like this.
"If it can't burn from 10 feet, you don't need safety glasses.
Oh yeah, lets all shine around and play with a 1 watt laser without goggles. Sounds like fun! NOT.
Just because it can't light a match at 10 feet doesn't mean you don't need goggles.

EDIT: Sorry for ranting but one more thing. I think if someone commits a crime by lasing an aircraft, they should not be banned for life. That's to harsh and will keep them from learning about the dangers. If there gonna lase, let them be informed. What do you all think?

It's a pity peoples inductive reasoning skills are so poor. This could be a FACTOR in aircraft lasing.
Example: That man lased an airplane and got 2 years in prison. So I'll laze a helicopter and that couldn't ever be a crime!

THE UNINFORMED, POOR REASONING, IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a important topic. One thing that this forum has that is new to me is its open to all ages. I could see the difference this makes pretty quickly. I would like to share the things that for me really drove home the seriousness of laser safety. It was seeing pics of peoples burned retinas. Reading the injuries and close call and above all seeing the police helicopter pilot's eye swollen and burned from some idiot with a pointer. A highly skilled and trained person doing his job serving the public that was permanently injured by a kid with laser on the ground. It really pissed me off and bummed me out at the same time.

It would be good to get more people reading these threads IMO. To understand things from the victims perspective. As someone that has been in the cockpit of many small and private aircraft at night I can tell you how terrifying it would be to lose your night vision as a pilot. Its not just about getting hit in the eye with a laser. A high powered beam lighting up a cockpit would render a person blind for minutes whether if it hit their eye or not. Even if they're instrument rated they couldn't see their instruments anyways to keep the a/c flying level. I wish this very real scenario was more known. Maybe because I have worked with pilots for a lot of years and was hit in the face with a laser pointer on final approach flying a high performance parachute traveling 45+ mph so it really hits home for me. Had it been a night demonstration jump it would have been an ugly landing.

Sorry I digressed for a min there. My point being is I think what hak is trying to do is important. I also agree that if too many people flood a new persons in box with tons of links and exclamation points bold caps everywhere ext you're going to have less effectiveness.

We had a similar problem in a forum I help moderate. Ill describe some of the actions we took and maybe it would spark some ideas that could help. We decided to make a welcome area that new people were limited to until they were promoted to full access. This way we could keep an eye on new members, ie attitude, maturity, helpfulness and knowledge, but also limit their access to topics such as where to buy, how to make ext.. They also had to make an introduction. Not just a "Hey Im Bob let me in the forum" but a real intro if they wanted full access to all the topics and wiki. In the welcome area were some general and open sections for people to learn and enjoy their time but also a lot more harm prevention and safety type sub forums with the reason being if new people were limited to this welcome area that only had 4-5 different topics to post or read in they were more likely to read the safety and harm reduction threads. Also, how about moving the safety topics up to the top of the listing rather than the very bottom? Making them more noticeable may help.

Im not saying all this worked perfectly for us or should be followed by LPF nor am i trying to come off as a know it all problem solver but it was effective in some ways. It increased traffic to the areas that we felt were important and being looked over by the people that needed them the most.
Anyways its just my 2 cents.

My dad went over gun safety before I used my laser. He also gave my friend a long lecture before he used it.

Though the laser is not a weapon, we were told to treat it like one.
He scared my friend so much in the long list of laser dangers that he only operated it for 10 seconds pointing in the sky and then gave it back to me.

USAbro said:

Also, when it comes to reasoning about lasers, people seem to be so stupid.

For example, if I say. "It is cloudy during the winter." A majority of youthful "knowitalls"

would say. Today it is cloudy therefore it must be winter. STUPID!!!

Click to expand...

Dude, you are like my Logic & Argumentation teacher!:crackup:

SilverFire said:

My dad went over gun safety before I used my laser. He also gave my friend a long lecture before he used it.

Though the laser is not a weapon, we were told to treat it like one.
He scared my friend so much in the long list of laser dangers that he only operated it for 10 seconds pointing in the sky and then gave it back to me.

Click to expand...

This is real safety!

Okay==+

there are some members banned for life--BUT, yes they do 'sneak' back I --with a new name of course and some get caught again (IP search) and some don't--
'IF' I understand it correctly a filter of sorts watches for members with the same location(IP) as the banned ones--

Such a 'filter' got DTR banned for a few days ONLY because he lives near a 'banned for life' former member ( at another laser forum) & I
got banned at LPF for a day by a 'bot'
or something like that...

I feel that IF we first 'friend' a new member THEN we PM with info they need to get along here we should not be hurting the feelings of most.



))))))))))))))

update and reply to USAbro..


Quote:
Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Cop just told me the typical penalties for minors lasing are suspending the time a teen can get his drivers license along with suspension of other privileges.

Where can I find the new members list?


One cops opinion-- minors get charged as adults all the time- I would NOT count on getting a break-lasers are not kids toys--so...if
you got a laser you are not a kid..
I agree with those who fear we/I am coming on too hard- one friendly PM or so is better-- scroll to the very bottom on the main page and you will see the newest member-

I sent PMs to
of five of the newest 15. two were blocking PMs ??? may have been spammers--

when you see somebody with very low post count and recent join date..
friend them.
-its fine for friends to give advice to other friends --right?

suggest that they add their location if its not showing..
that sure helps..
hak